BELT/PLATE SANDERS: A newby needs your advice!

M

Mikel_24

Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
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Not long ago I thought about trying my hand at knife making. I have been reading everything I could lie my eyes on and seems like there is a number of power tools that may come handy. I know I know... people have been making knives with nothing but a forge and lots of patience and elbow grease... but I don't want to get that extreme.

I intend to make them out of cars leaf springs. I just sent an email to a small company who crafts them asking them if they can sell me some flat stock. The key word here is FLAT.

I thought about making them out of used leaf springs but I am not sure if I will be able to flatten them propertly. Some guys suggested me (in ARMAS BLANCAS spanish cutlery forum) to heat them to red hot and then hammer them until flat over a scrap piece or rail road track (I don't have an anvil either but I may be able to get a piece of rail road track). I fear that even if I do that propertly there is going to be a LOT of metal to be removed untill I get myself a nice flat even piece of stock to make blades out of it.

I am thinking about buying a plate sander to flatten stock and a band sander to grind the bevels and work on handles and stuff like that. I have seen some power tools that have both in the same package!

I found one that I like a lot in KnifeKits.com (THIS ONE) but I live in Spain and paying for the shipping almost as much as what the tool costs... it is not worth it. I will need to buy a plate sander as well to flatten stuff.

I found some tools on eBay.de that might work. These ones:
REXON 320W $152 This is like 0.42 hp and narrow belts (30" x 1")
REXON 450W This one is like 0.6 hp and wide belts

I like the first one as well but I don't know if it is going to be powerfull enough... and I don't know if such belts are easily found (30" x 1"). Anyone knows if that belt sander is chinese?

The second one is more powerfull but I don't like the wide belt that much. And seems like it is built so you have to always work on the flat backed side of the belt... you can't use the slack to do convex grinds or anything. Anyone knows if I could just split a wide belt to make two narrower ones?

Thanks in advance,
Mikel
 
Check out the No Weld Grinder/Sander plans that Tracy Mickley sells. I built one and love it and he's a very helpful guy. That way you'd only pay for shipping on the plans instead of a machine and you could build it yourself from locally found parts. Just a thought. You can find it in the For Sale: Knifemaking Supplies forum.
 
Thanks a lot jackrabbitslim... Building one is something I am considering. I don't have many tools (glad to see I don't need a welder either!) but I could ask a few guys for some help. I even have one who has his own company of metal working. He is the one who is about to build me some underride protection plates for my VW T4 Syncro! I am sure that he can handle it.
Mikel
 
Mikel, although a flattening grinder setup would be nice, I would concentrate on the regular grinder first (preferably 2x72 - lots of belt options and more cost effective). I don't know what steel costs are in your neck of the world, but here you can get precision ground flat stock for a pretty reasonable price.

That being said, I certainly wouldn't pass up any leaf-spring material I could get for cheap or free. It would at least be good stuff to hammer on:)

Regards,

Dave
 
The 1" x 30" will burn up alot of belts trying to do stock removal. They just dont have the belt capacity to remove much stock. You could rough file and then use the belt grinder to finish. Your cost of belts will probably be high. You may want to consider this

http://www.grizzley.com/products/Knife-Belt-Sander-Buffer/G1015

I used the coote which I like alot

http://www.cootebeltgrinder.com/Information/index.html

cost a little more since it does not come with a motor, however, it will cost less to ship.

The problem with the REXON 450 is getting it set up to where you can grind, also you do not have complete access to the edge of the belt.

I think if you build a 2 x 72 or buy one you will be alot happier and get more value for your money.
 
General Specific said:
...Mikel, although a flattening grinder setup would be nice, I would concentrate on the regular grinder first (preferably 2x72 - lots of belt options and more cost effective)...
Click to expand...

I am considering getting separate tools... so getting a nice belt grinder first is always an option. If the belt is 2" wide I bet I can do some kind of flattening there as well. I was leaning more to 1" wide belts because I thought they might be better for working on handles and recesed spots. I just noticed that if you have 2" wide pulleys you can use 1" belts as well.... as long as you can find 1x72 belts! Can belts be splitted in half? I saw it in a youtube video about industrial strength belt sanders... The guy working on the machine just takes a wide belt (I bet it was 2x72) and splits it in half a little bit with a tool (maybe even his finge nail, I can't tell) and then rips it by hand.

Patrickknives said:
The 1" x 30" will burn up alot of belts trying to do stock removal...
...You could rough file and then use the belt grinder to finish...
...I think if you build a 2 x 72 or buy one you will be alot happier and get more value for your money...
Click to expand...

I just checked the two belt grinders you mentioned. Both seem great and the most appropiate tool for the job but they are way above what I expected to spend... and sending them to Spain would rise the prices even more.

As you said if I bought the Coote I would need to get a motor and put it together.

BUT I just checked and the G1015 Knife Belt Sander / Buffer (the one sold by Grizzly) and I am about to send them an email asking them what would they charge me for the whole setup but the motor. I bet the motor is the heaviest part of it (and probably the most expensive as well). Once I have it here I just need to figure out how to fit a new motor. As long as the shaft fits, it should be ok (that way I can get a propper 220v motor). It is of course less heavy duty looking than the Coote but that's more than enough.

Thanks a lot for pointing it out for me,
Mikel
 
Sounds like a good plan, Mikel. And yes, to do handles you can just take a 2" belt and split it at the splice and then pull it apart the rest of the way. Just make sure you don't have anything hanging off the split edge that will whip you as it goes by:)

Regards,

Dave
 
Mikel,
The Coote is ready to go out of the box. The people I have known that use the Grizzly have had to rig bracing to make it run true. I don't know if the difference in the price make tweaking worthwhile for you.
Lynn
 
I use the Coote and like he said it is ready out of the box, I use the three step pulley to give me variable speeds and it really works well. I also got the improved platen, never used the orginal so not sure what it is like.

I use the coote to shape handles as well, I use the unsupported (slack) belt above the platen and below the upper roller. I have trouble using the 1 x 30 since I get belt groves from the edge of the narrow belt in the wood. The 2" can do it if I am not carefull but seems more controllable. I do rough shaping with a 80 grit then go to 120 and 220 and then hand sand from there. I do some flattening of steel on the Coote as well. the piece needs to be smaller than the platen and it works fine. I then sand flat on a marble table with a sheet of sandpaper.
 
I just recived an email from Grizzly telling me that they can't ship the sander without the motor. They also told me that they are unable to ship such a heavy thing to Spain and that I will need to pay the services of a company just to do that. That increases the prices even more. BTW, the damn thing is made in Taiwan... just to let you know. That might explain the need of tweaking it.

Seems like I will have to make do with one of the small ones found on eBay and shipped from Germany (I bet the REXON ones are also made in china) or just build one myself.

jackrabbitslim said:
Check out the No Weld Grinder/Sander plans that Tracy Mickley sells. I built one and love it and he's a very helpful guy. That way you'd only pay for shipping on the plans instead of a machine and you could build it yourself from locally found parts. Just a thought. You can find it in the For Sale: Knifemaking Supplies forum.
Click to expand...

I am going to look for that thread right away to check them out. I am sure there is a handfull of other designs there in the net but if you say that this one works great, then it does. Period.

Jackrabbitslim, ¿could you snap a picture of yours just to help me get an idea of how it looks like? I really like the design with two pulleys stacked verticaly. That doesn't take up much space so I can keep it almost anywhere.---->Don't worry about the pictures, I just noticed there is plenty of them in the thread you mentioned.
Mikel
 
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I have the same 1x30 REXON that is shown in the picture and it is a fairly good little grinder. I picked it up when I was living in Germany and brought it back to the US with me. I have used it, so far, to shape the handles of several blade blanks that I bought and finished and to help grind out one complete knife. I say help grind out because I also used a hand-held belt sander clamped in a vise to do a lot of the work.

Like others have said, it goes through belts very quickly when you are grinding steel and it is not very powerful. I am currently building one of the No-Weld Grinders from Tracy Mickley's plans, but I plan to keep the little REXON grinder to use in places that are hard to get to with the larger grinder.
 
Thanks a lot for the input HaveRuck. I thought that a 2" wide belt would be hard to get into some spots but after watching a video of a KMG where the user splices a wider belt to make a narrower one... I am not long affraid of it any more. The guys here told me that I can splice belts with no problem.

I also plan to borrow one of those hand held belt sanders and clamp it upside down in a vise in the mean time. I am not affraid of using a lot of elbow grease on this. I plan to do convex grinds on four blades I want to craft out of leaf springs. My idea is to cut the blanks with an angle grinder, rough shape the bevels with it as well, then switch to files, give the hand held sander some workout and then end up with the mousepad/sanpaper combo. I know I won't get perfect bevels and I will probably have some uneven spots but hell... without the propper tools this is the best I can do! I bet scandi grinds or full flat grinds are easier but I am not that proficient sharpenning them.

Mikel
 
Mikel_24,

then switch to files,
Click to expand...

Just my 2 cents worth. Like you, my choice of sander was in part restricted by budget. I bought a 4x36 because it was priced right. Yes, I do wish it was something different, but I don't think I made a mistake. I was able to purchase some nice files because I saved enough $ on the sander. I am definetely glad to have what I do instead of a better sander and no files!

Matt
 
Just my personal opinion having gone through this myself, I built a very simple 2 x 72 with worked fine, I am not sure if I have any old pnotos. It was square steep pipe bolted together. You can buy the wheels and tracking device online, but in reality you will spend more and still have to get a motor and pulleys. the coote does not have a motor and it really is not that big to ship. I would check and see what the cost would be.

I really do not think the 1 x 30 work very well unless you are doing really small blades.

Good luck
 
michdad said:
Mikel_24,



Just my 2 cents worth. Like you, my choice of sander was in part restricted by budget. I bought a 4x36 because it was priced right. Yes, I do wish it was something different, but I don't think I made a mistake. I was able to purchase some nice files because I saved enough $ on the sander. I am definetely glad to have what I do instead of a better sander and no files!

Matt
Click to expand...

I have a few files at home. Some are new ones, other older worn out ones... they are very useful. I do spearfishing and i have to sharpen the spears quite often. I will never take them to a grinder because I will ruin the heat threat... so hand filing is the way to go. I will be gettin newer ones becausethey are not that expensive, the biggest ones I have around here are like 10€... which is like $15. The older ones will surely work great as metal for blades!


Patrickknives said:
...I built a very simple 2 x 72 with worked fine, I am not sure if I have any old pnotos. It was square steel pipe bolted together. You can buy the wheels and tracking device online, but in reality you will spend more and still have to get a motor and pulleys.
Click to expand...

I am all out for building a 2x72" myself. I don't know if I will end up buying the plans from Tracy because they are designed to use hardware in inches... and translating all that to metric measurements is going to be hell. There is so many pictures of home made ones online that I can pretty much figure it out miself. The tracking pulley might be the trickiest part of it (I may get the plans just for that... and for contributing!). That design seems to be pretty idiot proof because even if you don't measure right the spacing among holes, axles and alike... the spring tensioned arm and tool arm adjustments will take care of the belt slack. Getting all the pulleys aligned propertly is the key here and thats a matter of drilling the holes for them perfectly straight and tweaking it with washers. The wheel sizes aren't that critical either!

Before I buy anything I will try to locate everything around here. The trick is that I might get the motor for free...

Mikel
 
I don't know if I will end up buying the plans from Tracy because they are designed to use hardware in inches... and translating all that to metric measurements is going to be hell.
Click to expand...

Although I have never tryed to build a machine like this, I have translated a number of machine design drawings back in the day when pencil and paper was the norm. 1 inch = 25.4 mm. Not disagreeing with you, and certainly don't let the thread direction change. I have never had a problem going back and forth from either measuring system starting direction. I will admit at being pretty good at math though.

I am all out for building a 2x72" myself.
Click to expand...

I have given this LOTS of thought, just not sure where to begin. I also have thought about buying plans but have never had much luck finishing those kinds of projects. Guess I'm not supposed to excel at everything! lol.

Matt
 
michdad said:
Although I have never tryed to build a machine like this, I have translated a number of machine design drawings back in the day when pencil and paper was the norm. 1 inch = 25.4 mm. Not disagreeing with you, and certainly don't let the thread direction change. I have never had a problem going back and forth from either measuring system starting direction. I will admit at being pretty good at math though.

Matt
Click to expand...

I guess I didn't explain myself well... Any measurements can be translated from inches to metric system just like you stated. I agree fully with you on that issue. The main problem is that hardware, drillbits and alike... are also in inches. And trust me, I haven't been able to get a single 1/4" drill bit here. I got the closest there is... 6.3mm... and I had to enlarge the hole a little bit with a rat tail file. That's ok for a set of micarta handle slabs... but not for a machine that needs to have some stuff perfectly aligned. Bolts, whasers, nuts and any other hardware will have to be in metric system as well.

Even getting squared steel pipe with X" thick walls... is not going to work here. And if that wall thickness is critical for wheel alignment... I am screwed up badly. That's exactly why I want to find the hardware first (telling by the pictures what needs to fit in where) and then get the plans from Tracey. I will shop arround with printed pictures of it untill I can locate all the parts.

Mikel
 
Mikel,
I guess I didn't explain myself well... Any measurements can be translated from inches to metric system just like you stated. I agree fully with you on that issue. The main problem is that hardware, drillbits and alike...
Click to expand...
I evidently didn't understand what your problem was. Different measuring systems on paper are easily translated, but much less so when in physical form, like drill bits, bolts, stock, etc.

bikermike,
I'm 90% finished with Tracy Mickley Grinder. If you can build anything you can build this. There are only 2 sizes of bolts and 4 sizes of square pipe. I bought other plans for grinders, but Tracy's are the most well thought out.
Click to expand...
I have read about this, never pursued it though. I didn't realize that it used that much standardized sizes of readily available things. Cool! Thanks for the link.

Mikel,
If you might be interested, pm or e-mail me, I might be able to "dimentionally translate" a set of plans to the measuring system of hardware and structural componants that you have readily available.

Matt
 
michdad said:
Mikel,
Mikel,
If you might be interested, pm or e-mail me, I might be able to "dimentionally translate" a set of plans to the measuring system of hardware and structural componants that you have readily available.

Matt
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the offer Matt. I just sent an email to a friend of mine who has his own metal machinning company. He is about the only one in a lot of miles round who has the propper equipment to key axles!!! He is going to look for the wheels, bearings and all those "round" expensive "hard to find" things (iddle wheels, tracking wheel, etc). Once I have all that figured out, I will drop you a few lines.

Getting square pipe is not going to be a problem. I just found a store about 20 minutes driving from home where they sell whatever I might need and they even cut it in appropiate pieces. Hardware is no problem either, I have hardware stores all arround. Check it out: HIERROS EXTEBARRIA

I am going there this very same afternoon to buy some square pipe and metal plate to make a workbench (suitable for welding on it). I will borrow an arc welding machine... is going to be a busy weekend (I have welded very very little... just a few tacs).

Mikel
 
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