Belt sander for stock removal

R

Ring

Joined
Jan 27, 2006
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I am one of those "want to do it myself" types.

In that vein of thought, I learned how to make custom cue sticks and a bunch of other various things that I have wanted. So I have a decent workshop and skills to put it use.

Saying all that, I want to make a new blade for one of my knifes. I snapped the tip off, so I thought I would try my hand at grinding my own blade.

I have 2 very stout grinders that can handle stock removal, but ive noticed most used some sort of belt sander and they are expensive.

The cheapest I have seen so far is one from Grizzly for about $385 IIRC.

I certainly am not going to make a living out of this and maybe not even a hobby. But I want to do it myself and willing to invest the time to learn and some money.

What is a cheap sander that would work for stock removal?
 
Craftsman had a 2x42 belt sander that was a fair deal. Kalamazoo grinders makes one too but if it were me having to buy again knowing what I know now I'd get the Coote to start out I think and stick my own motor on it. The Coote is belt driven and you could set up a series of pulleys on it pretty easily I think and that would allow you to vary the speed pretty easily.

I doubt anyone would recommend it because I'm just a glutton for punishment but you can grind bar stock with a 4x36 grinder, or a 1x30. I made the knife in my signiture line with a Harbor Freight 1x30 sander with a ceramic belt on it. That little unit ran me about $45 shipped. So anything is possible. I've seen guys do it with drum sanders, and also by hand by making a jig to hold the bar stock, setting up some predetermined wedges behind it and setting it up on the edge of a table and using files to grind them a blade by filing progressively down to the wedge and then flipping the blade over.

Its all a matter of what you are used to. There are probably hundreds of ways to make a blade from bar stock. Some are just better than others because they are faster and easier.

STR
 
I will look up the Coote.

I have a 3.5 HP (Alis Chalmers) motor that I use as a RPC to run my lathe. I was thinking I could use that and rig something, but I would rather have something prebuilt.

Any more suggestions??
 
I like the looks of the craftsman and the price is about right.

The Coote looks a lot more capable, but again, more than I want to spend.

I looked at HF, that have a little 1x30 but it doesn't look all that stout. But the price is great.

Just a couple of more questions.

1. What are the proper belts? I know for steel I run AO stones on my normal grinders, do they make that in a belt?

2. Is a knife blade shaped, then heat treated and then sharpened? Or is it heat treated first then shaped? It seems that a belt sander wouldn't do much on a hardened piece of steel or stainless.

Thanks
 
Ring said:
I like the looks of the craftsman and the price is about right.

The Coote looks a lot more capable, but again, more than I want to spend.

I looked at HF, that have a little 1x30 but it doesn't look all that stout. But the price is great.

Just a couple of more questions.

1. What are the proper belts? I know for steel I run AO stones on my normal grinders, do they make that in a belt?

2. Is a knife blade shaped, then heat treated and then sharpened? Or is it heat treated first then shaped? It seems that a belt sander wouldn't do much on a hardened piece of steel or stainless.

Thanks
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The Coote is the best budget grinder. All the other grinders that are cheap (including the Grizzly) will give you a headache. Go ahead and spend a little bit more for that Coote.

As far as the steel goes...a proper 2X72 belt grinder will eat a piece of steel for breakfast. Go to a knifemaking supply house and get yourself some good carbon steel O-1 bar stock. Most stock you buy comes in an annealed (softened) state and will be that much easier to grind. Shape it while it's soft, then do the quench and heat treat. Sharpening is the very last step you do, after handle shaping and everything else.

Oh yeah....go get the Coote.
 
A&H abrasives is where I buy my belts. On metal I use ceramic or zircon belts. On wood aluminum oxide. I have used aluminum oxide belts on metal but they don't last long or cut as cool as the others but heck they will work fine for a guy just wanting to get his feet wet. I mean I used those for years before I ever heard of the others. Some steels like D2 can work harden and stuff like that, although minimal can slow you down a bit on the lesser grinders.

You have to think that being that you are just wanting to test the waters, as Scott said, that you may not stick with it or even like it that much. So I'd go minimum spending until you know you are not throwing good money away.

I've had the daylights shocked out of me from the static build up on the belts from grinding and there are other things that need to be addressed as well around those machines. Loose clothing is a no no, have your hair, if long, tied back and out of the way, eye protection, respirators and filters need to be bought too. This is all stuff that you have to have and not optional. So just add all of it up and plan ahead now. Don't mess around with your lungs or your eyes. Its probably fine if you are just occasionally grinding to skip the respirator to find out if you will stick with it but in and out everyday you must have these things.

STR
 
STR said:
Loose clothing is a no no, have your hair, if long, tied back and out of the way, eye protection, respirators and filters need to be bought too. This is all stuff that you have to have and not optional. So just add all of it up and plan ahead now. Don't mess around with your lungs or your eyes. Its probably fine if you are just occasionally grinding to skip the respirator to find out if you will stick with it but in and out everyday you must have these things.

STR
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Yea, that whole blowing your nose and having black stuff come out is a sign that what you are breathing while grinding is not so nice for your body. I made that mistake only once. BTW I am working on my first 3 knives. 2 hunter designs, and a fillet knife. I am using 5/32 154CPM for the hunters, and 1/8 154CPM for the fillet. I get the profile by drilling a line of holes around the profile I want, and use the dremel to cut out the blade. I then grind it with a 4x36 delta shopmaster. The 4x36 cuts kinda slow, so patience is a virtue. Hopefully Santa will being me a KMG for Christmas!! I also use a dremel and sanding drums to shape the scales.
 
Speaking of that technique of drilling holes around the profile to get the pattern out. I've done it that way with 5/32 and 1/8 thick bar stock for years using my wood cutting band saw and a blade with 14 to 18 teeth per inch. This is just a regular old blade not a bi metal high dollar one either. I have also used one of these $9 93.5" blades for cutting titanium and aluminum with that same blade used for the bar stock until they wear out. They last on average about 1 year for me.

Trying to cut D2 out with one of these wood saws that moves along way too fast will just heat up the D2 so it work hardens. But if you drill holes leaving them close you can actually cut them out pretty darn quick and get by with it indefinitely. My saw is 20 years old and not been the least bit affected by cutting all the metal it does doing it this way. Its also possible to work harden D2 with dull drill bits so use good ones and get you a drill Dr. to keep them up to the task.

STR
 
I use a dremal tool and a dril to get the shape because i want to get as much out of my stock as i can. but for my finger holes like on the VALOR II project I drill all the way around then cut out the center with my dremall tool. I then stack around 3-5 cutting wheeles on the dremal and use it to get the nice rounded curves. On the modle where the finger holes are sapret and not one big hole i use a 1" bit. My point is i love my dremal tool and i consider on of my most importint tools. I think if you wanted to you could make a complete knife with one.
 
I agree. Years ago I traded a jeweler even up for this foredom foot controlled dremmel for a high speed dental handpiece and chuck. At the time I was thinking I may have got the worse end of that deal but looking back I didn't do bad at all. This dremmel was my only drill press (up to 3/16 size bits) a mill for cutting off bar stock and making locks for liner and frame locks, shortening screws and pins and all the other things a dremmel does for many years. Its very old too and the poor thing has been worked to death. I've burned up four sets of brushes in that little thing over the years but still use it most every time I step out in the shop to do anything. Since then I've picked up another of these brand new made by Pro Craft that is a bit bigger motor but very much the same. These new digitally controlled foot controls are much better for controlling the speeds. I looked at the Foredoms and was ready to buy one, but right before ordering went to the same jeweler where this one came from and he is a Pro Craft dealer now. They are half the price of the Foredom and very much look the same. Quality seems quite high to me. I highly recommend them. My variable speed dremmels are easily the most frequently used items in my shop.

STR
 
I am 100% with you. I need to get a new one, the one i have is a craftman and it has given a long and helthley life. but the speed control started acting up and onley had one speed and that was slow. i found that if i hit the remal tool with somthing it would speed up. so i took it apart and found that the carbon contact strip the is right under the speed control had a bunch of gunk on it. i cleaned it and now its working just fin but i should probabley get a new one and keep this one for back up. out of the 2 you mentiond which one do you like the best
 
The Pro Craft. The foot control is better, the control is better, the motor is bigger and it has more upmph so little by little the smaller Foredom is being used less and less.

The Foredoms are extremely well made though but they are higher priced.

Gromet is the parent company that makes the Pro Craft.

STR
 
I have started grinding out blade blanks using my little 1x30 belt grinder. I am using 1 1/2" x 1/8" flat ground O-1. I lay my pattern out, scribe onto the steel and cut off any large excess with a hacksaw first. Then, I just grind away. I'm using a 60x grit Zirconia belt, made for grinding tool steel. I'm just starting out, but this setup seems to really work so far. The grinder cost me $65 Can. Here is a pic of my blank. Black lines are just some Sharpie marker ideas for handle etc.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j290/mshell444/IMG_1071.jpg
 
Benchmade,

The blank looks good, but just a couple of small things. Your index finger groove looks a bit too sharp, and the belly looks like it's a little far north as well, if you catch my drift. Mind you, I'm going off of the assumption that this is a 3-finger knife, maybe about 6 or 7 inches overall. If you haven't already, pull the guard off of the top of the grinder to expose the top barrell. This will open your world to enormous possiblities! French curves, here you come!

Edit - OK, just looked at the photo again, and it's 8 inches.....With where things stand right now, I'd still move the belly a bit, but I'd also give up a little more of the blade from where you're at, to macke sure you can comfortably get your hand on it. Reshaping the butt to do away with the exposed thong hole isn't an option right now, but with your next one, you might consider putting it in the upper corner so you can still maximise the full length of the steel for the handle, without hosing 3/4" or so in length.
 
Interesting observations. I actually had the thong hole in the upper corner, then moved it so it would be exposed :rolleyes: As for the blade shape, this is actually the second design I'm using. Everytime I make a blank, I refine it a little more. It feels very comfortable in my hand though. As for my grinder, that guard came off last week :D I totally see what you mean!! Thanks for the advice.
 
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