Belt Sander VS Hand DMT Stones

C

chococrazy

Joined
Jul 1, 2009
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506
I'm trying to figure out which will produce me sharper edges!
Here are the Pro's and cons I've seen of each
Belt Sander- Pro's
Fast
Makes sharp edges (not so sure on hair whittling can someone clarify if they can)
versitily of either a v edge or convex
Cheap ($40 HF)
Can be used for other things such as handles and such.
Can also be used to strop
More variety of grits
Cons:
Doesn't take as much skill as hand sharpening (I'ma get killed for that 1)
Big and Clunky
Loud
Not as much in a Zen state :P.
Chance of ruining Temper

Hand DMT stones Pros:
More control
Takes more skill
WIll produce Hair Splitting edges
easy to set up

Cons:
Very pricey compared to the Belt Sander (~60 per stone)
Takes longer
Can't do a convexed edge
Takes time to break in

Now theoretically which one will get a sharper edge?
I was guessing hand honing with stropping at the end the belt sander is using a belt strop loaded with .5 Cro.
If a belt sander will give me hair whittling edges I'ma go out to HF and get me one :P.
I have a lansky that gets me a popping edge, and every now and then a good hair whittler.
 
Both will produce hair whittling edges. Both take some skill. The belt sander will reshape a blade if you dont pay attention. I have not been able to get hair whittling edges off the sander without using a 1x30 leather belt loaded with some compound. Some people can, but I cant do it yetI recommend getting a higher quality sander than the HF. I just took 2 in a row back after the motors started smoking the first time I turned them on. On the other hand, my old one still works after 7 years.:rolleyes: I tested some knives on thread on a scale, some by hand and some off the sander. They scored equally well on thread cutting. Both were stropped. The hand sharpening was done on a 250/1000 grit King combo water stone, followed by microbeveling on a Sharpmaker, flats on the stones only, both brown and white, then stropped on 0.3 micron honing film on a board. The sander sharpened blade was done on the HF, 220 grit, 40 micron, 20 micron, 9 micron and then leather with white compound. Both whittled hair, but the belt sander prepared edges always seem to have more bite and aggression than the hand ones, even when mirror polished.
 
DMT stones without a doubt, you can't burn a blade when doing it by hand and you end up removing far less metal.
 
Oh, yea, there's that too. As said in Leonard Lee's book of sharpening, the trick is not getting a knife sharp on a belt sander, its getting a knife sharp without taking off too much metal. There is definately some skill in using a belt sander. If you go the sander route, you will ruin the first few knives you try. You want a burr big enough to feel, but not to see except in the best light, and its very easy to overshoot. My kitchen knives show the wear of sharpening with a sander for going on a decade (7 years). But they are still there and not worn to toothpicks; well ok, that one paring knife, but a lot of that was done on a coarse Norton before I ever got the belt sander.

Oddly enough, one of the critisizms I hear of DMT and diamonds in general are that they remove metal too fast. Obviously uninformed people talking about something they shouldn't. Just use fewer strokes and less pressure:eek: Thats the whole idea after all, sharpening to the same edge in less time.
 
Well, I find that I never really remove too much metal on my belt sander. Your two most used belts will be 15 or 9 micron and your leather belt. They don't remove that much metal. In fact, I only use my grit belts for the initial re-profile. After that, its pretty much only the leather with CrO.

Im looking to get some water stones and daimond stones, but i need to do more research.
 
Both get you sharp. One more con for the belt sander is you can get shocked from static bildup. And for your DMT con of convex, you can easily convex with the DMT hones in fact they are my prefered method of convexing. I have both a belt sander and the DMT hones. I wouldn't be without either of them. I do use the DMT hones more though.
 
I like using a belt sander over DMT's. I get a more consistent, even scratch pattern from heel to tip more quickly than with any kind of stone. Polishing is quicker and better when done right.

That being said, if I had to use a Harbor Freight model, it would drive me crazy. The platen is thin and cheap and the table is worthless. There is more of a learning curve with belts than people often mention. You need to know your sander, the belts, how the belts flex, how to tension the belts properly, and how to control the speed properly. Some belts need to be broken in a bit as well btw. Quality equipment will set you back more $ than the DMT's. If not convexing with the belt sander, you will either need special jigs or tables to do a proper V edge or hollow grind. Forget trying to ever do a hollow grind on an HF or similar style sander.
 
db said:
Both get you sharp. One more con for the belt sander is you can get shocked from static bildup. And for your DMT con of convex, you can easily convex with the DMT hones in fact they are my prefered method of convexing. I have both a belt sander and the DMT hones. I wouldn't be without either of them. I do use the DMT hones more though.
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You can't get a full convex edge with stone, but you can with a belt sander.
You may be able to take a shoulder off with a stone, but it's impossible unless you are a pro at moving minute angles in an exact fashion to carve out a circle (nearly impossible).
 
changeofseasons said:
That being said, if I had to use a Harbor Freight model, it would drive me crazy.
Click to expand...

Yep, listen to him. The $40 HF sander sucks. I do like it for finishing the flat/convex grinds that I do, though. As for sharpening: it's not that great.
 
I have a Delta 1 inch belt sander that I use to set the edge when sharpening. Then I move on to Diamond stones on the sharpmaker followed by medium, fine and a strop to produce hair popping edges. I like the idea of trying out a leather belt for stropping with the sander, but haven't yet tried it. I'll get around to it someday.:D

I don't like the idea of having to choose one or the other. The combination of both belt sander and stones and strops works really well in my experience.
 
I use my HF belt sander whenever I need to sharpen they are for sure not designed for commercial type use but for a home shop and my personal use it works great.
 
zhangmaster12 said:
Well, I find that I never really remove too much metal on my belt sander. Your two most used belts will be 15 or 9 micron and your leather belt. They don't remove that much metal. In fact, I only use my grit belts for the initial re-profile. After that, its pretty much only the leather with CrO.

Im looking to get some water stones and daimond stones, but i need to do more research.
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This.

For 95% of my sharpening, I go from 15/9micron belt to a leather belt loaded with CrO, it takes 2minutes to go from a dull edge to a hair whittling edge.
 
chococrazy said:
You can't get a full convex edge with stone, but you can with a belt sander.
You may be able to take a shoulder off with a stone, but it's impossible unless you are a pro at moving minute angles in an exact fashion to carve out a circle (nearly impossible).
Click to expand...
Well you sure can get a full convex blade by hand with a stone. I am far from any kind of pro but have put on a full convex from spine to edge on many knives with a bench hone only. It is much easier than you'd think. In fact I'd say it is nearly impossible to get a flat bevel by hand much moreso than a convexed bevel. However, I'd really want to use a belt sander if trying to regrind a larger knife. I've done a Mora by hand with a stone but it did take some time to fully convex it.
 
Well, Ben Dale once told me he holds to within 2 degrees freehanding, and he's been doing it somewhere around 50 years. AFAIK, everyone else also adds at least a couple degrees convexity when trying not to. Convexing an edge freehanding on flat stones is very easy, as in unavoidable.
 
Jason B. said:
DMT stones without a doubt, you can't burn a blade when doing it by hand and you end up removing far less metal.
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Belt sander sharpening is like anything else- you wouldn't drag your blade edge perpendicular across your stones would you? Well if you use a little common sense in belt sander sharpening you don't need to mess up your blade either. It is quicker than hand sharpening, and it produces a very nice edge. Because of the geometry of edges the convex edge produced by the belt sander will not be as sharp as the flat grind you produce on a stone, but when sharpenend correctly I don't think the average person would ever know the difference. There is certainly a learning curve on a sander and the first few knives may be damaged. It definitely has the potential to do that. But I would say that once "mastered", a belt sander is every bit as valid a sharpening tool as all those spendy stones.
 
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