Beltsander?

silverdragon33 said:
very little risk of overheating it. INFI needs to get up to something like 900 degrees before the temper is affected.
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I'd like to hear the factory confirm that, I dont know of any blade steel that will take a temp that high and not kill the heat treating. Good rule of thumb; if the steel is too hot to handle its too hot to keep grinding. Cool it down and start again.

You dont need a fancy belt sander, just take your time and dont rush it. Final recommendation, before you dork up an expensive knife go down to the local surplus store and buy a couple of cheap bayonets or survival knives and practice grinding on them. Once you have the basics down go get your Busse.
 
kdstrick said:
Yup! Easy, easy, easy... The main thing is to use pretty fine belts so that it doesn't remove too much metal. I step it down with 3 or maybe 4 different grits, using a leather belt from lee valley for the final step... it puts a mirror edge on it.

The key to not rounding off the tip is to not allow the tip to 'run' off the edge of the belt. Practice on old kitchen knives or machetes before hacking up the INFI.

I keep a cup of water next to the grinder and dip the blade in it after grinding the edge, and allow it to sit for a minute or so before continuing.

Also, wear goggles and a dust mask. ;)

The coolest thing about the grinder is that it sharpens the knife so fast that you will never feel guilty about beating the crap out of them, because you can so easily re-sharpen them (although the INFI will rarely need it).
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Don't the fine and leather belts heat up the metal quicker than the coarse?
 
Nuke41 said:
Good rule of thumb; if the steel is too hot to handle its too hot to keep grinding. Cool it down and start again.
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+1 on that!!! Grind bare-handed and when the metal *starts* getting uncomfortable, dunk the blade in cold water (I like icewater). Then don't take it out until the metal feels cold.

What doesn't register is that due to the thinness of the stock at the very edge where the bevels meet, heat can build up there quite quickly and may well not be felt by your fingers before it's too late (i.e. the steel gets hot enough to microscopically alter the characteristics of the steel at the very tip of the edge where cutting actually occurs). Your fingers may not feel it because the thickness (mass) of the metal you are holding onto a little ways back from the edge serves as a heat sink for the heat being generated by the friction of the blade against the grinding belt.

Hence, a LIGHT touch is called for when pressing the metal to the grinding belt, along with the fine grits mentioned already and frequent dunking of the blade to dissipate heat buildup before it approaches damaging temps.

To repeat Nuke's axiom, "If it's too hot to hold, it's too hot. Cool it down."
 
Nuke41 said:
I'd like to hear the factory confirm that, I dont know of any blade steel that will take a temp that high and not kill the heat treating. Good rule of thumb; if the steel is too hot to handle its too hot to keep grinding. Cool it down and start again.
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i'm fairly certain that was what jerry said (though i think this was said re someone sticking it in the oven for molding sheaths), but rokjok brings up a good point.
 
richstag said:
Don't the fine and leather belts heat up the metal quicker than the coarse?
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Good question... I don't remember. The thing is, I only run it under a fairly slack belt (to convex) for maybe 2 seconds, and then dunk it in the water for a minute or two, until it is cool to the touch. Then I flip the blade to the other side and repeat. Switch belts to a finer belt and repeat... and repeat... The blade really never gets very hot when you take your time and dunk it. When you are done, strop it on some leather or your blue-jeans leg. It will take off the final bit of burr if any exists.

I've convexed many knives and have never had trouble with this method. If anything, the convex edge holds an edge longer than the 'V' edge for hard use... but I think it would be the same no matter the method of convexing (hand or sander).

Good luck! :thumbup:
 
Hi Everybody,

Hate to be the doom Sayer or the dark cloud of reason on all of this; but does all this 40.00 harbor freight belt sander, grinding, con-vexing, re-shaping or whatever, effect the warranty ?

With as much of it that seams to be going on ( I have seen it on a few of the forums) I would think so, especially when Jerry has not trained the people doing it & has no control over what may or may not be happening ???

Please understand I mean no offense, I would just hate to see all this ruin a great warranty & maker/customer relationship.

For me personally when I do any serious grinding like taking the INFI "Dimples" out of a blade, or con-vexing (changing the grind angle) or drastically changing the shape of the Blade ( and I am very careful when I do anything on my Busse's and keep them very cool) with power tools, I really do not expect Jerry or Busse combat to warranty it any longer.

If he does that is great, but I do not expect it, when he has no control over the conditions it was done in.

Again I mean no offense to the Blade modifiers, I have seen a few of these discussions & thought I would share my feelings.

Thanks for listening :)

 
David Brown said:
Hi Everybody,

Hate to be the doom Sayer or the dark cloud of reason on all of this; but does all this 40.00 harbor freight belt sander, grinding, con-vexing, re-shaping or whatever, effect the warranty ?

With as much of it that seams to be going on ( I have seen it on a few of the forums) I would think so, especially when Jerry has not trained the people doing it & has no control over what may or may not be happening ???

Please understand I mean no offense, I would just hate to see all this ruin a great warranty & maker/customer relationship.

For me personally when I do any serious grinding like taking the INFI "Dimples" out of a blade, or con-vexing (changing the grind angle) or drastically changing the shape of the Blade ( and I am very careful when I do anything on my Busse's and keep them very cool) with power tools, I really do not expect Jerry or Busse combat to warranty it any longer.

If he does that is great, but I do not expect it, when he has no control over the conditions it was done in.

Again I mean no offense to the Blade modifiers, I have seen a few of these discussions & thought I would share my feelings.

Thanks for listening :)
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that is why I did mine all by hand with sand paper and mousepad method.

That took forever with the FBMLE though!!!!!
 
David Brown said:
Hi Everybody,

Hate to be the doom Sayer or the dark cloud of reason on all of this; but does all this 40.00 harbor freight belt sander, grinding, con-vexing, re-shaping or whatever, effect the warranty ?

With as much of it that seams to be going on ( I have seen it on a few of the forums) I would think so, especially when Jerry has not trained the people doing it & has no control over what may or may not be happening ???

Please understand I mean no offense, I would just hate to see all this ruin a great warranty & maker/customer relationship.

For me personally when I do any serious grinding like taking the INFI "Dimples" out of a blade, or con-vexing (changing the grind angle) or drastically changing the shape of the Blade ( and I am very careful when I do anything on my Busse's and keep them very cool) with power tools, I really do not expect Jerry or Busse combat to warranty it any longer.

If he does that is great, but I do not expect it, when he has no control over the conditions it was done in.

Again I mean no offense to the Blade modifiers, I have seen a few of these discussions & thought I would share my feelings.

Thanks for listening :)
Click to expand...

I am personally not worried about the warranty. No dark cloud over me.
 
David Brown said:
Hi Everybody,

Hate to be the doom Sayer or the dark cloud of reason on all of this; but does all this 40.00 harbor freight belt sander, grinding, con-vexing, re-shaping or whatever, effect the warranty ?

With as much of it that seams to be going on ( I have seen it on a few of the forums) I would think so, especially when Jerry has not trained the people doing it & has no control over what may or may not be happening ???

Please understand I mean no offense, I would just hate to see all this ruin a great warranty & maker/customer relationship.

For me personally when I do any serious grinding like taking the INFI "Dimples" out of a blade, or con-vexing (changing the grind angle) or drastically changing the shape of the Blade ( and I am very careful when I do anything on my Busse's and keep them very cool) with power tools, I really do not expect Jerry or Busse combat to warranty it any longer.

If he does that is great, but I do not expect it, when he has no control over the conditions it was done in.

Again I mean no offense to the Blade modifiers, I have seen a few of these discussions & thought I would share my feelings.

Thanks for listening :)
Click to expand...

I'd guess with any typical knife from a typical company... yes. When the Boss gets drunk, takes a perfectly good knife to a grinder and then posts his frankensteined creation online... I'm gonna say no. :D

You have a good point though. Maybe it will, but I think the warranty is pretty solid, considering the intended abuse these knives are created to take. I for one wouldn't mind paying Garth a couple bills to "fix" my knife if I blew the edge on my grinder.
 
I feel that I would not want a knife that I REALLY NEED a warranty on. It is a nice piece of mind but with that said if I screw up my knife... I SCREW UP MY KNIFE :) Knives that I have destroyed through whatever method go into the trash. To me being able to fix my own edge is a better "warranty".

Just my opinion:)
 
I've seen Jerry replace a knife after someone hammered it into a cement block and then kicked it, snapping the tip off....


I'd be really surprised if he refused to honor the warranty because I sharpened it ;)


In fact, considering the incredibly obtuse edge angles the shop puts on some of these blades, I'd say they are BEGGING us to reprofile them. :D
 
I wonder if using a Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker's steep angle feature to slightly reprofile the edge plus elbow grease would suffice as a poor man's somewhat convex edge.
 
Well, as always, thanks for the wealth of information! I know that a few seconds too long on the bench grinder will trash the best chisel, and figured the beltsander would do the same to my Busse. I'll try the beltsander VERY carefully, and thanks again everyone!
 
richstag, i made my own belt sander and i have a 3 step pulley on the motor and an adjustable pulley on the rear drive roller. this setup allows me to set the speed where i want it without changing the motor speed.
 
I've been thinking about a belt sander and I think this post has pushed me over the edge. I have some cheap machettes that I'll do some practicing on first.

I do recall a tip that I think Jerry posted a little while back to avoid rounding the tip. He said to stop while the knife tip is still on the middle of the belt instead of running it all the way off.
josh
 
Also, if your going to convex you grind without a platen on the grinder, just using the slack belt.
 
richard j said:
richstag, i made my own belt sander and i have a 3 step pulley on the motor and an adjustable pulley on the rear drive roller. this setup allows me to set the speed where i want it without changing the motor speed.
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Thank you again!
 
Nuke41 said:
I'd like to hear the factory confirm that, I dont know of any blade steel that will take a temp that high and not kill the heat treating. Good rule of thumb; if the steel is too hot to handle its too hot to keep grinding. Cool it down and start again.

You dont need a fancy belt sander, just take your time and dont rush it. Final recommendation, before you dork up an expensive knife go down to the local surplus store and buy a couple of cheap bayonets or survival knives and practice grinding on them. Once you have the basics down go get your Busse.
Click to expand...

Well there's all sorts of steels, ATS34 is probably the most common at a recommended 950 degree temper. Lower temperatures will not affect the blade hardness after tempering at 950. High speed steels have even higher requirements, M4 hss for example has a listed minimum temper of 1000F.
 
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yoda4561 said:
ATS34 is probably the most common at a recommended 950 degree temper. Lower temperatures will not affect the blade hardness after tempering at 950.
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Where did you get that from? The recommended ATS 34 and 154CM heat treat is 20-30 minutes at 1900°F, oil quench, then 300°F for 2 hours, cool to room temperature then 275°F for 2 hours. You heat a fully heat treated ATS 34 blade to 950°F and the heat treating is history.

Here's a good web site on heat treating temps and times:

http://www.evenheat-kiln.com/technical/heattreat/heattreat.htm
 
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