Bench Stone Recommendation

ejames13

ejames13

Basic Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
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I just completed my first successful freehand sharpening on my Spyderco Sharpmaker. Flipped it over and put both diamond rods flat on the base and used some putty to secure it to the table. Obviously not an ideal setup, but it’s what I had!

I’ve been wanting to try freehand sharpening for a while but have always been scared. So today I made the plunge, and my edge turned out quite nicely. Even bevel on both sides. I moved through the ceramic medium rods and was able to get the edge quite sharp, though I couldn’t seem to totally remove the teeny burr. I always have trouble doing so on the medium ceramic stones.

In any case, I’m looking for recommendations for what I should purchase to get started with freehand sharpening. Currently all my knives are low alloy steels, but I could potentially have some high vanadium steels in the future. I know generally people prefer waterstones for low alloy steels and diamonds for vanadium rich alloys.

I’ve seen a common setup is the Beston 500, Bester 1200, and Suhiro Rika 5K. However I know these won’t work well on high vanadium steels, and they require a diamond plate for flattening. I would just go all diamond, but I’ve read that’s not ideal for low alloy stuff. So what’s the best compromise? Do I just need two sets, one waterstone set and one diamond set? Or can I just do diamonds and be done with it?

In general I’m looking for a 3-stone combo: something extra coarse-coarse, something medium-fine, and a nice finishing stone. Price isn’t too important but I’d like them to be reasonable.

A pic to make things more fun:
7150586B-5B8D-4926-9FB0-2AFE26F7DD11.jpeg
 
Nice job on your first freehanding. Sharpmaker is cool and I'm a fan, but always good to see a fellow knife knerd takin' the plunge to learn freehand. :D

In your situation and given that you have all lower alloy steels today, I wouldn't worry about trying to buy one universal do-it-all set of sharpening stones for all time. Stones don't cost THAT much (compared to say, guided system like WE), there are always shiny new ones coming out, and it's always easy to upgrade later. I'd start with getting the basic set of stones you really want that can do a great job on your low alloy steels, and only add the diamond plates later if/when you buy steels that require diamonds. Seriously, you can buy two dual-grit DMT 8" interrupted diasharp plates--the XC/C and the F/EF--anytime you want, and those 4 grits will cover you everything you need. But for now, I'd start with the stones you really want to sharpen your low allow steels.

I know nothing about the stones you mention, I could only give firsthand recs for the ones that I've used which are not as high-end as the ones you're looking at. Whatever you go with, take the most care in selecting your coarse stones, get good quality ones that are highly recommended by a number of the regulars here. The coarse stones are by far the most important and are the key factor in good sharpening results.
 
ejames13 said:
I’m looking for recommendations for what I should purchase to get started with freehand sharpening.
Click to expand...

An Edge Pro Apex
OK . . . ok . . . I suppose some like a challenge . . .
:confused:o_O

Probably a good compromise that would work with your low alloy and then do pretty well on the high vanadium (according to Ankerson and Phil Wilson) the simple solution . . .
the inexpensive solution . . .
the rope cutting winner extraordinare is . . .
Norton Crystolon

With time and counseling . . . medication as needed . . . you'll probably come around to join those of us on the outside . . . Edge Pro . . . but until that glorious day . . . there is always the bench stone . . . if you have to . . .
. . . I guess.
:)
 
I got a 300/1000 water stone. Its pretty nice it feels good to use it . But I'm lazy, have high end steels and use diamonds. Got a cheap Chinese two side plate and it works. Its not that coarse, I don't take off too much steel with it. This served as good practice. Next I'm going to pick up a coarse dmt soon. Can use it to flatten waterstone in the future. All this plus spyderco doublestuff, SM ans UF rod. Also got a strop with 1 micron diamonds that i don't really use, think I'm set.
So this is just my route from SM to freehand. Some kind of apex/edge pro next probably :) but not because i need to
 
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Looking at what I have today, if I were gonna start today trying to keep the setup cost under control but enable me to sharpen both super steels and other steels, I'd start with:

* DMT 8" duosharp dual-grit XC/C, and F/EF. At Knifeworks, that combo would cost $147. That's for super steels, tough tool steels, D2, or anything else hard to sharpen.
* Norton Crystolon dual-grit Coarse/Fine (JB8). $20 at Knifeworks. Set bevels and profiling of any steel, and the fine side can put a good working edge on conventional steels as well.
* Baryonyx Arctic Fox. $40. This 400-grit AloX stone can put a near finished edge on your conventional steels. With a good number of my knives, I just sharpen on the AF and stop, don't even strop.
* A higher grit AloX dual-grit stone like you can find at the Big River site to refine edges on your conventional steels. I use this for finishing kitchen knives. I'd suggest something like the Sharp Pebble 1000/6000 AlOx stone, which runs around $25.

So a bit over $200, that kit would be a good start and could cover all steels. But the OP is looking at higher end water stones, etc., so probably not possible to get into it that cheap unless you skip the diamonds like I suggested earlier, and just start with the water stones only.
 
I haven't worked any insane steels, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have worked Benchmade M4, S30V, S35VN, M390, hard D2, and CTS-204P.

I like using a DMT EC to set bevels. It will handle any steel, and will set bevels on low alloy steel so fast it won't have time to be any kind of a problem.

If the bevel is set, honestly, I have had zero issue working an edge on any of the above steels with any of my waterstones, including Kings, which are relatively slow.

So for a beginner flex set, I'd recommend a DMT EC for setting bevels and flattening stones, then I'd suggest Shapton Pro 1k and 5k for their splash n go nature (essentially, ease-of-use), and their excellent performance to price ratio.

But truth be told, I sharpen everything with everything--low allow on diamonds, vanadium carbide on aluminum oxide--and have found nothing to be particularly bad. I suppose if you did gross volume sharpening, your opinions would be more specific, but for your own personal needs, I think you'll be able to get away with pretty well whatever you enjoy. Fundamentally, you're merely grinding metal; it's not like you're chemically balancing a rocket fuel burn
 
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A diamond hone works best for me. Sharpens any kind of steel. An angle guide that clamps to the back of the blade is useful for re-profiling.
 
The King 1K/6K combo is an excellent introduction to Japanese water stones.

I have a sampling of most water stone lines and I still use my King stones very regularly.
They may be basic and fairly inexpensive but they work.

If you like using the King stones though, most likely you will love some of the higher dollar stones.
 
maximus83 said:
Looking at what I have today, if I were gonna start today trying to keep the setup cost under control but enable me to sharpen both super steels and other steels, I'd start with:

* DMT 8" duosharp dual-grit XC/C, and F/EF. At Knifeworks, that combo would cost $147. That's for super steels, tough tool steels, D2, or anything else hard to sharpen.
* Norton Crystolon dual-grit Coarse/Fine (JB8). $20 at Knifeworks. Set bevels and profiling of any steel, and the fine side can put a good working edge on conventional steels as well.
* Baryonyx Arctic Fox. $40. This 400-grit AloX stone can put a near finished edge on your conventional steels. With a good number of my knives, I just sharpen on the AF and stop, don't even strop.
* A higher grit AloX dual-grit stone like you can find at the Big River site to refine edges on your conventional steels. I use this for finishing kitchen knives. I'd suggest something like the Sharp Pebble 1000/6000 AlOx stone, which runs around $25.

So a bit over $200, that kit would be a good start and could cover all steels. But the OP is looking at higher end water stones, etc., so probably not possible to get into it that cheap unless you skip the diamonds like I suggested earlier, and just start with the water stones only.
Click to expand...

Important to note that that's 400 ANSI. 700 JIS. :)
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone!

I've been really torn between going the diamond route vs waterstones. Ultimately I chose waterstones because I don't have any high alloy steels, and I've read a lot of folks saying that a). diamonds don't feel that great to sharpen on and b). they don't produce as keen of an edge on low alloy steels.

I went ahead and ordered the Beston 500 and the CKTG diamond lapping plate. I know it is generally not recommended to start on low grit stones, but I feel like I have a pretty steady hand already and the 500 isn't that coarse.
 
ejames13 said:
I went ahead and ordered the Beston 500 and the CKTG diamond lapping plate. I know it is generally not recommended to start on low grit stones, but I feel like I have a pretty steady hand already and the 500 isn't that coarse.
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Great choice. Fast, fun, and you’ll love the edge you get
 
Now to get a medium and fine, something in the 1000-1200 and a 6k-8k to finish.

That 500 won't keep you occupied for long...
 
HeavyHanded said:
Now to get a medium and fine, something in the 1000-1200 and a 6k-8k to finish.

That 500 won't keep you occupied for long...
Click to expand...

Yes, I intentionally didn't purchase those yet. Hoping to practice and get my edge as sharp and clean as possible on the 500 before moving to higher grits.
 
Solid decision on how to get started, given the steels you have. You can easily add diamonds anytime later if you want to. Seems like there's no one size fits all recommendation on the "which stones to get" question. It's always a matter of what steels the OP has, what kind of materials you WANT to use for subjective reasons (like feel of stone, I do/don't want to use oil stones, or diamonds, or water stones, etc.), and also how much you want to spend.

It also bears repeating this point: it's not just a little, it's WAY WAY WAY more about practicing and developing your sharpening skills than which stones you use. I'm convinced that some of the pro sharpeners on this forum could get better results using a single dual-grit Norton JB8 Crystolon, than some less experienced sharpeners can get with an $800 Wicked Edge or a whole line-up of fancy Shaptons. I think many of us knife knerds, myself included, sometimes spend more time than we should obsessing about 'which stone to get' rather than which sharpening methods to use and practicing to get better. So I guess the encouragement is, don't spend too much more time thinking about your stones, you made a solid decision, now it's time to put metal to stone! ;)

I would be interested to see you get the grits that HH recommended, do some experimenting, then post back here with a few pics and share your learnings.
 
ejames13 said:
What is the highest level of sharpness I can expect to get if I stop on this stone?
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It's a toothy edge with excellent bite. You should basically be able to get as sharp as you want, practically speaking. Shaving hair and whispering through phonebook paper will be easily and rapidly within your grasp off the Bester Five-Hunnit. I have not tried to whittle hairs or anything with an edge off it, though it is likely very possible, as I have seen people whittle a hair with less. It's a fast stone, so you will need to manage your burr as you come to the finish, but if you work with the stone properly, I have little doubt you will very pleased with the results you can achieve.
 
Alright boys, let's do this.

The knife is the ZKC C02 in 440C. Pay no attention to my crappy looking bevel as I have been using this knife to practice different sharpening techniques, and in doing so, I have worked the bevel into an uneven mess.

Let's, however, undo all that on the Beston Five Hundo and see how sharp we can get this thing.

KLg0TGq.jpg


I cut off my apex and worked a new burr, flipping it several times just to make sure I was working with a good fresh edge. This was the mud generation (lots of swarf, definitely some stone too though):
rDX2v64.jpg


Then I cleaned off the stone and did some gentle, burr-minimizing strokes. Actually came off the stone really clean, but what kind of madman wouldn't strop anyway?
SAisbic.jpg

l1a4Gtm.jpg

My strop is definitely reaching the later stages of it's life...

The result was effortless push cutting both with and against the grain on phonebook paper:
6eN7dJp.jpg


Need a shave?
RECdetm.jpg


But really, for the question we're all wondering... will it whittle?
WzG49Er.jpg

The edge would strip multiple curls off the strand before eventually cutting it. The other half of that hair has some curls on it, but it has fallen somewhere on my bathroom mat and I can't locate it.

So anyway, the Beston 500 should definitely get you where you wanna be. A greater progression will produce easier/effortless hair whittling and other various extremes, but the Beston and stropping alone will let you split hairs which, good God man, is that not high enough for you?!
 
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