Benchmade CPM-M4 Chopper.

shunsui said:
Most "competitions" devolve into odd sports dominated by weird rules and mutant competitors. I'll take the technology boost but I'm not going to get fanatical about it.
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So true, so true. Look what's happened to NASCAR in the last 20 years. Those cars are anything but "stock". And who would hunt with a competition "clays" shotgun or a 1000 yd. benchrest rifle?

Specialized rules require specialized toys.
 
The cutting competition knife is really not the most practical a knife for everyday use. I will be the first to admit it. My personal competition knife will likely never find it's way into my back pack either as it is too heavy and too thin to depend on.

But as in the "stock car" races, motor sports and other races, the cutting competition is becoming the a test bed to try new materials, construction methods, grinds and techniques. It's a way to push the knife and the cutter in a race to the finish, with tangible results. We get direct feedback from our work and efforts. Sometimes these results will find it's way to the consumer market either through trends or fashion or real innovation. I find a lot of what I have learned gets translated into what I make for the everyday use knives that I do make for customers.

Sometimes, more often, we find out what doesn't work. When we push these knives to the brink of failure, the do fail. And that knowledge is just as useful as finding out what works.

BladeSports is proud and grateful to have this knife available to those who want to be introduced to this sport without the expense of purchasing a custom knife. As a group we have tested this knife and found it to be competitive and competition ready.

respectfully,
Jose Diaz
 
I am one of the world's greatest fans of the "uber" steels, like CPM M-4.

But I use an axe for chopping, not a knife. Not ANY knife.
 
Jose, You, If I'm correct make your own knives. I know you are Ed. S.' friend, and I'm not sure if you too are associated with Spyderco sponsorship.

I was wondering if you too are using a CPM M4 blade?

It seems as if I heard somewhere that 3V has been found less satisfactory despite it's higher shock resistance and Charpy numbers than CPM M4

Is it a wear resistance thing, or a work hardening issue at the very thin edges needed? I've heard both. I know it makes great thick choppers, and have always wondered why it wasn't used more in competitions.

Thanks for posting here BTW. It's always great hearing from the guys actually doing the cutting.
 
Ben Dover said:
I am one of the world's greatest fans of the "uber" steels, like CPM M-4.

But I use an axe for chopping, not a knife. Not ANY knife.
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How does your axe do at slicing a free-hanging rope? Diagonally cutting an empty bottle? Any of the other tests of sharpness, agility, or non-chopping feats performed at a cutting competition?
 
Just like chinese cleavers of the last 2000 years you could probably use the lower front right angle as a point to pierce. How about Stallone's knife in Rambo4[Burmese Dah ?] solves the square point problem. Maybe the Americanised Tanto wasn't such a bad idea after all ? Just upside down.
 
Burke said:
How does your axe do at slicing a free-hanging rope? Diagonally cutting an empty bottle? Any of the other tests of sharpness, agility, or non-chopping feats performed at a cutting competition?
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Geez! I dunno. :eek:

I've never had a need to cut free hanging rope, or slice bottles in the mountains, or forests! :p

But my hunting knives will dress two or three elk, and still shave arm hair, since I use them for cutting, and my axe for chopping.

I've never dressed an elk with an axe either. I must be missing out on all the fun stuff! :rolleyes:
 
believe i'll leave the chopping to persons competing in same. nice of b.m. to go out on a limb with this product but i do'nt see many people going as far as to have cutting contests on their property. i'll enjoy my knives at work or i n the country; doubt i'll run into many hanging ropes & bottles lined up on a table in the woods or lakes. imho this is the biggest dud to be produced by a major maker in recent history.
 
DennisStrickland said:
believe i'll leave the chopping to persons competing in same. nice of b.m. to go out on a limb with this product but i do'nt see many people going as far as to have cutting contests on their property. i'll enjoy my knives at work or i n the country; doubt i'll run into many hanging ropes & bottles lined up on a table in the woods or lakes. imho this is the biggest dud to be produced by a major maker in recent history.
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Jeez Dennis those are some pretty harsh words, not used to hearing that from you.

I don't think BM went out on a limb with this product at all and I don't think they were expecting it to be a big seller. It's going to be a niche knife and probably produced in very small quantities. It might even be sold on an order only basis.

I don't see where BM has put much real estate into this product. It hasn't been put into one of their classes, I've seen no advertising for it, didn't get showcased at the Shot Show, and was kinda thrown to be back of their catalog as an afterthought. To me for a knife to be a dud it has to have some hype beforehand, I think this chopper is simply here to appeal to a niche crowd and bring awareness to a growing sport. Certainly not meant to be a groundbreaking new product.
 
tjsulli790 well i certainly ca'nt argue with the facts you presented or with the eloquence in which you did so, touche.
 
Ben Dover said:
But I use an axe for chopping, not a knife. Not ANY knife.
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We at BladeSports are not really encouraging folks to use these knives without training. We hope by having these knives on the market, at a less expensive price then a custom piece, then maybe more will try their hand at this sport. We use the competitions as a test bed for materials and techniques, not to prove anything, but to show versatility in these knives.

The Mastiff said:
Jose, You, If I'm correct make your own knives. I know you are Ed. S.' friend, and I'm not sure if you too are associated with Spyderco sponsorship.

I was wondering if you too are using a CPM M4 blade?

Thanks for posting here BTW. It's always great hearing from the guys actually doing the cutting.
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I am sponsored by Spyderco, but I also am the Executive Director of BladeSports International. As an active member and a cutter I am encouraged and respectful of any of our sponsors going out on a limb and producing a consumer accessible product.

I do make my own knives. I am and have used CPM M4 in my competition knives. I also use 52100. I like both materials for different reasons. I think that both materials have their merit.

respectfully,
Jose Diaz
 
The Mastiff said:
It seems as if I heard somewhere that 3V has been found less satisfactory despite it's higher shock resistance and Charpy numbers than CPM M4

Is it a wear resistance thing, or a work hardening issue at the very thin edges needed? I've heard both. I know it makes great thick choppers, and have always wondered why it wasn't used more in competitions.

Thanks for posting here BTW. It's always great hearing from the guys actually doing the cutting.
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3V is a great material. We just haven't experimented with it yet. There is a new participant, and maker who makes a lot of 3V swords. His name is Dan Keffler. I am encouraging him to make a chopper out of it.

We'll get there. Right now there are cutters using A2, CPM M4, and 52100. CPM M4 is by far the most popular material, but we as a group haven't decided on any thing yet. We're still trying new things out and haven't officially endorsed any one material. I was in Warren Osborne's shop in December, and he had chopper blanks in CPM D2, 52100, and A2 that were in process. He's also a full time maker and has to build his money makers too.

We could use more help with the experimenting thing. Any one out there want to play?

Respectfully, Jose Diaz
 
DennisStrickland said:
believe i'll leave the chopping to persons competing in same. nice of b.m. to go out on a limb with this product but i do'nt see many people going as far as to have cutting contests on their property. i'll enjoy my knives at work or i n the country; doubt i'll run into many hanging ropes & bottles lined up on a table in the woods or lakes. imho this is the biggest dud to be produced by a major maker in recent history.
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I hold a competition and school on my property every year. (a chance to put in a shameless plug)

Address:
409 W. 12th Ave.
Ellensburg, Washington 98926

Dates:
April 3-4, 2010

There is a fee for the school on Saturday that will include continental breakfast, lunch and dinner on Saturday.

Practice knives will be available for anyone needing a knife.

This is a hands on school & every opportunity will be given to one & all to hone their skills at the cutting bench

A points competition will be held at 2:ooPM on Sunday so everyone who has been certified will have the opportunity to compete. It is free to those who want to watch.

For more information please feel free to contact me.

Respectfully,
Jose Diaz
 
Thanks for the response Mr. Diaz. I have 3 3V knives, and about 8 in CPM M4 ( mostly folders). I also have a few knives in Vascowear, the step parent of 3V.

I can't recall who it was that talked about 3V not lasting with the very thin edges used in competitions compared to the regular production 3V type knives with thicker edges.I had thought it was Ed S., but I went through old threads where he spoke about the sport and found no such statements from him.

I guess I'm getting old. :)

I love 3V, especially Ferhmans. M4 is probably my current favorite all around steel. They all have their uses though, and things they do very well.

It will be interesting to watch as things grow and mature in the sport.
 
I believe that cutting competitions are a wonderful thing for developing new products, and testing new steels, new tempering of existing steels, etc. :thumbup:

My earlier comments, which were not intended to be negative toward the sport, but were apparently so taken by some, were intended to differentiate between "cutting" and "chopping."

IMHO, hacking through a 4X4 with a knife is no more of a valid test of the primary function of that knife, than dressing an elk with an axe would be a valid test of the intended function of the axe.

Obviously, of course, there are a limited number of exceptions. The machete and kukri immediately come to mind. IMHO, neither is actually a knife or an axe, but a rather ingenious hybrid of the two. Neither will perform either cutting or chopping at optimal levels, but both will perform at acceptable field levels, making them the tool of choice in some situations.
 
I am curious to know the weight of the Benchmade knife. The Browning was much lighter than most competition knives.

How much did this one weigh Jose? Damascus Beauty Great technique with that knife. Looked like a 19 bottle cut at the end also.
 
Ben Dover said:
I believe that cutting competitions are a wonderful thing for developing new products, and testing new steels, new tempering of existing steels, etc. :thumbup:

My earlier comments, which were not intended to be negative toward the sport, but were apparently so taken by some, were intended to differentiate between "cutting" and "chopping."

IMHO, hacking through a 4X4 with a knife is no more of a valid test of the primary function of that knife, than dressing an elk with an axe would be a valid test of the intended function of the axe.

Obviously, of course, there are a limited number of exceptions. The machete and kukri immediately come to mind. IMHO, neither is actually a knife or an axe, but a rather ingenious hybrid of the two. Neither will perform either cutting or chopping at optimal levels, but both will perform at acceptable field levels, making them the tool of choice in some situations.
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Thanks for your understanding, and I agree. It's hard to create a tool for all, that's why there are so many knife designs out there. (I love variety) I definitely have not thrown my axe away. Right tool for the right job, was what I was taught. :D

respectfully,
Jose Diaz
 
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