Benchmade should hire me for stress-testing

For springs, from what I know is, if the deflection/bend/etc it experiences under loading is high, then under many cycles the metal will have problems and fatigue fail.

To reduce amount of deflection, one could

a) use longer/wider spring. You know the axis has a small hole where one end of the omega spring is placed? They could drill it further back and use longer spring. Doubling the length of spring means spring experiences approx 1/2 amount of deflection compared to original. Doubling length does not mean doubling life, it is exponential relationship not linear. I got this from a Mech engineer from Zublin Germany who modded my machine.

Just an idea. Feel free to disagree. Just feel that springs need not be so omega looking. If less so (meaning more stretched/longer in length) it'll last longer.
 
I broke the Omega spring on almost every BM axis I've ever had. Out of 4 Axis lock BM I have one left. And I'm talking of a time period no longer than a year or two per knife. Now, I only have that one Perdue Axis knife, and all my other BMs are liner locks or frame locks.
Axis locks are good, until they break; and sorry, I don't want to fix a knife I paid a whole lot of money for with a piano wire. The fact warranty voids if you disassemble the knife SUX. If you don't want people to disassemble your knives, make it riveted or some shit, just leave the adjustable pivot.
Axis is very hyped up, People should really consider the fact that the failure could occur when you most need your knife, and that IMO is a bad risk to take, with any knife.


You must have some bad luck. Which models were they out of curiosity? Were any of them taken apart? It has been found that some AXIS knives can have the omega spring pinched if not put back together correctly. This causes the spring to bend more over a shorter distance and can cause it to break.

I personally think the AXIS lock is the best lock out there. Even if a spring breaks when you "most need your knife" there is still a second spring to make the lock work. Not a big risk to take, if a risk at all, in my opinion. And if for some reason both somehow broke at the same time you can lodge a small stick or something similar behind the lock bar so you still have a securely locked open knife.

Most of my user knives are AXIS locks including my ever present RIFT that is ALWAYS in my front right pocket. I estimate that it has been flipped opened and closed close to 20,000 times since I first got it. Out of all my knives I have only had 1 spring break which is the only problem that I have ever had with the lock. 5 minutes with a pair of needle nose pliers and some 0.025" MIG wire and I had a new spring that has worked perfectly since then. I have had 3 EDC liner/ frame locks 'fail' on me and had a few NIB do the same which were returned. Either the lock slipping off the blade tang so the blade closes or the lock actually wearing so much it hits the other side and causes blade play. None of these I was able to fix and in my experience they are a less reliable lock. I would much rather have a lock that is built to compensate for any wear and that I can fix in the shop than one that either has to have the lock replaced by the manufacturer or the knife thrown away. This is my opinion and I don't by into hype. I base my opinions on the engineered design and actual real world experience.

Also, if you can take your knife apart and put it back together then the warranty will not be voided because they won't know. I think they mainly say this for legal reasons and so they are not constantly getting in bags of parts that people could not put back together. I don't see why they should change their assembly method to a possibly worse design because of a policy that was probably implemented on the suggestion of a lawyer.
 
You must have some bad luck. Which models were they out of curiosity? Were any of them taken apart?


I had the Omega springs fail/break on a Rukus, Mini Rukus, Presidio and a Griptilian. And I did take the knives apart to see if something just popped out of place.
Maybe it is indeed bad luck. I've had great luck with the Caged BB lock and compression lock (which is the most bombproof lock ever IMO). Any other lock seems to fail or at least lacking the reassurance.
I must add that none of my liner locks or backlocks on my Spyderco knives ever failed. Though I had a full size BM Deja vu fail on me hard, also many Emerson liner locks. Buck's back locks also have treated me horribly. So pretty much I always EDC a fixed blade and a good folder (mainly Spyderco)
 
Well, the other spring broke today. It's really irritating because I don't want to call Benchmade, see if they will even fix it, risk shipping it to tell me they won't fix it without charging sense it was disassembled ( and I threw the springs away so I can't just put them back in ), and past that I don't really want to have my knife shipped off at BM for weeks without being able to use it. I mean, it's pretty much the cost of shipping + insurance versus the cost of a guitar string to fix it myself.

I'm pretty disappointed in the AXIS lock. Now even if I send it back to BM or fashion a spring from guitar string, I'm going to be wondering how long it will last until it breaks again. :thumbdn:
 
I don't understand how you've had so many consistent faults with the AXIS lock. I can only speak from my own experience, but all the AXIS locks I have never had a problem... It's amazing that within a few days you had so many.

I'm interested in seeing what the failure looks like so I can re-evaluate my own knives.
 
I am going to trough this out there. Pics or it did not happen.

Respect for u but who takes pictures of broken springs all the time? Fact is these kinds of things happen all the time and there is no reason to disbelieve the fella, even without pictures it could have happened, you can say that you personally would need a picture of the broken spring to believe it happened but not all need so.

Like do I need a picture/pictures to prove I am not in the US, you can choose to believe it or not.

However in some cases it really needs pictures, like a broken blade where you still have pieces but the fella already said he dumped the pieces.

Not to argue but just my opinion, hope you don't get offended.
 
I don't understand how you've had so many consistent faults with the AXIS lock. I can only speak from my own experience, but all the AXIS locks I have never had a problem... It's amazing that within a few days you had so many.

I'm interested in seeing what the failure looks like so I can re-evaluate my own knives.

Well, I can't take a good picture, but when I noticed the failure this time it was because the spring did not push the lock into place. Good thing I noticed before cutting.

Anyway, when I checked it out, there was a very sharp bend in the middle of the spring's curve. it looked kind of like a kinked garden hose, and there was pretty much no force being applied from it. I picked it up and pressed on it with my fingers to check it out, and that's when it snapped off. Explains why on the first one it had snapped in half at that same spot.

I think it's just metal fatigue with the way the break was. There was still some resistance in the spring when it came to pulling the two ends apart, but none whatsoever while pushing the ends toward each other.

I'm not a metalurgist, but the metal the springs are made of didn't seem like very high quality stuff, at least when comparing it to what I'm going to replace it with, i.e. guitar string. I figure guitar string is springy enough and its intended purpose is to be moving around and vibrating, so hopefully it doesn't fatigue as quickly as the metal the springs were made out of.

I open-and-closed it quite a bit, but I don't think it would be hard to compare it to a couple of years use if only opened and shut when used. I can count on my hands the amount of times I have zoned out and did it, but basically it would be about thirty minutes to an hour ( or however long I watched TV, but usually no more than two hours ) of me opening and closing it at about a rate of once or twice a second.

So all I'm saying is that, the springs they have in there, I wouldn't count on to last several years, and spending this much money on a knife, I don't want to worry about if the company is still even going to be there in say 20 years to fix the thing when their springs fail.

No big deal, I'll just replace them with some guitar strings and those will probably last much, much longer. I think BM should probably choose some better material for the springs though, considering my experience of some of the other users. They probably are catering to the lowest common denominator, or in other words they're already satisfying the majority of the market that won't wear out the springs that fast, but I think that if you look at the raw numbers these springs shouldn't have failed with the amount of times I opened and closed the knife--at least I have higher expectations from them when the knife retails at $200.

I mean, it's no real slam on BM or the design, I just had a feeling when buying it that the springs wouldn't survive both my use and my bad habits. Perhaps it's unfair to evaluate the springs along those demands since I usually have liner-locks, but for some reason I had this wild idea that they would be made with super high quality stuff that wasn't going to wear out. Nope, they're just normal springs.

That being said if I see another model of BM with an AXIS lock I might buy it and replace the springs with guitar strings, but other than that I'm staying away.

@marthinus,
broken_omegaspring.jpg
 
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Hey Kenny, shit happens.

Out of curiosity though, are you thumb opening or wrist opening? If they break just from thumb flicking, that seems a little weak. If you are wrist opening like an inertia open, I'm sure that causes much more damage. Or doing the disengage the lock and wrist flick open... that surely could mess a knife up.

I work out of the house and I find myself flicking open knives all day when I'm reading some info or whatever. Just a fun thing to do and the axis lock is one of my favorites to do that with. Maybe these springs are more delicate than once thought, who knows.
 
So the second spring broke while using it with only 1 good spring and 1 removed that already broke? I would think having only one spring could load the lock weird and put more stress on the spring. Also, maybe when you disassembled the knife the first time you could have pinched the good spring like I mentioned in my previous post.

I guess I am different than other people but I like the fact that I can make my own spring, which I have done and it works perfectly. A coil spring you would have to try to track down. I have been looking for a coil spring that is weaker than the stock spring in the Manix 2 since I got the knife a year ago with no luck. If it was an omega spring I could just make a new one to my liking. Different strokes and all that.

If you want I can make some springs for you and mail them if you would rather not send it to Benchmade. They don't take long to make and while they don't look perfect since they are hand bent, they work great. When you make them, both need to be replaced so they have the same spring tension otherwise the lock bar gets loaded unevenly.
 
I have been looking for a coil spring that is weaker than the stock spring in the Manix 2 since I got the knife a year ago with no luck.
you could cut off a coil or two and stretch the spring to original length, this will reduce the force it exerts.
 
Springs are springs, and they all can/will break. That said, I think Benchmade could use a higher quality spring. I had one break years ago. I think it was a 940 but can't remember.
 
Hey Kenny, shit happens.

Out of curiosity though, are you thumb opening or wrist opening? If they break just from thumb flicking, that seems a little weak. If you are wrist opening like an inertia open, I'm sure that causes much more damage. Or doing the disengage the lock and wrist flick open... that surely could mess a knife up.

I work out of the house and I find myself flicking open knives all day when I'm reading some info or whatever. Just a fun thing to do and the axis lock is one of my favorites to do that with. Maybe these springs are more delicate than once thought, who knows.

Nah, i always thumb opened it, and even moreso I kept the pivot well-lubed so I didn't have to use a lot of force.

@FlatMtnBkr,

I don't think I damaged the spring when disassembling, and I'm not sure that the uneven stress would cause it. I can see your point if I was using just my thumb to engage the lock, but I had problems with the bar sticking at first ( common on the Kulgera ) and learned to pull the lock back with both my index and thumb, so I doubt that if there was an unequal force, that it would be from that.

Moreso I think it would be from just the one spring handling the load of the blade pressing the spring down, which is what I kind of anticipated, but I figured I would have some more time to replace it. I figure it must have been nearly as stressed as the other one and close to breaking already.

I think I'll take you up on your offer to ship me some springs. I'll PM you with contact info.
 
Not to argue but just my opinion, hope you don't get offended.

Not at all. As I said I am going to put it out there, probably for my own inquisitive mind as I have only seen one other broken spring in the last 4 years on the forums.

That said. KennyB did a good post just after yours that answered my big question about how many times does he open and close the knife. 3600 times at 2 per second for 30 Minutes. Damn that is a lot! I am surprised you dont wear out all your locks in a month!:eek: :D

I thought I opened mine a lot but no where near that amount!

I have used my 550HG grip for the past 2 years now and both springs are still good. Touch wood! I have to admit that it is bonus that even if the springs fail the lock is still not useless. You can either push a piece of wood behind the lock (emergency situation) or you can make your own guitar springs. Not many other locks have that luxury.....but many dont see that as a luxury. Different strokes for different folks.
 
you could cut off a coil or two and stretch the spring to original length, this will reduce the force it exerts.

I have thought of that but haven't done it since the spring terminates with coils that are touching themselves and it would no longer be like that but probably doesn't matter much. That and if it doesn't work right I am out of luck since Spyderco doesn't usually stock little parts like that and I would probably have to pay 5 bucks for shipping if they do. Might try it anyways although it has gotten quite a bit easier to unlock since new.

Kenny I replied to your email.
 
You must have the worst luck in the world to have that many omega springs break so quickly on you. Don't buy any lottery tickets.

I, on the other hand, have had a 710 since early 1999 (read that: 11 years) and have never had the springs break on me. The springs on my mini-Grip have seen considerable use over the last 3 years and have never failed. The same goes for my mini-Barrage.
 
I have a few questions: when flick or just generally use your knife, do you:

1. Let the spring snap the lock closed after you flick?
2. Only pull on one side of the lock to disengage it?
3. Pull the lock down all the way when you disengage it?
 
Welp, I just wore out my second AXIS lock in 6 months. Not, "It took six months," I busted one, sent it in for warranty, got a new knife, and now 3 months later I've worn this one out too.

I guess Benchmade needs to give me a job flipping and closing their AXIS locks all day.

It's definitely my fault, I had a habit of sitting there "flipping" them open and shut. Not exactly what they quality-controlled for.

Thankfully on this one only one of the springs broke so it's still functioning.

I took it apart to get the broken spring out as it was grinding and messing up the opening, think I can still send it in for warranty?

I think I'm going to move away from AXIS locks though. I mean sure, they don't quality control for some guy flicking them open and shut all day long, but I think for the price they should.

unfortunetly, most companies... i know SOG for sure, say that ur warrenty in INVALID if you open your knife... it's gana cost u money now for them to fix it... thats y i never open my knives.... if i have a problem i send em in... and they fix it right up..
 
I have a few questions: when flick or just generally use your knife, do you:

1. Let the spring snap the lock closed after you flick?
2. Only pull on one side of the lock to disengage it?
3. Pull the lock down all the way when you disengage it?

I'm not sure I under 1. Doesn't the lock "snap shut" itself if you just flick with your thumb?

2. I pull the lock on both sides with index and thumb
3. I only pull it far enough for the lock to disengage

@marthinus,

Yeah, but I'm being pretty generous with the two times a second, and I doubt it was very constant. Just a rough estimate.

I don't doubt it was some excessive wear, but I've had the same habit with liner locks for years, and never had one of those fail. I guess those aren't very fair to compare though, considering the design and difference in material.

I don't know, we'll see when I replace the springs how long those ones last.
 
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