Benchmade Vs. Spyderco opinion

[marthinus]

Does you dealer have a Pacific Salt in stock? If your dealer is having problems getting stock and you only have two weeks left, you probably need to choose from what is available. So what are your choices?

Wouldn't want to suggest something that would subject you to the same frustrations.

Aside from taking it to the beach, how else were you planning to use this? What kind of carry do you like? What types of cutting do you do?

I emailed the supplier just now and am awaiting theyre response on wether or not they have the Pacific Salt. I most probably will decide on a knife when I have it in hand, I like to keep my options open. My main concern is that I want an all terrain knife that needs little maintanace. It will be used for hiking trips, bout rides and any other outdoor sports like rafting, paintball, hunting.

 

[mmarkh]

What does that mean?

 

[Steven Andrews]

H1 is a work hardening steel. The more you sharpen it, the harder it gets, hence the longer edgeholding you get. It was first discovered when routine tests showed that the SE blades have a higher Rc rating than the PE ones. I doubt it will surpass ZDP189 though.

Wouter

I use my H1 Pacific Salt in the kitchen and sharpen it often. Edge retention has not got noticably better, and it is long way off VG10's edge retention.

 

[Kaizen1]

I am not sure how did this soft materials came up here, certanly I did not mention it. I think with 65HRC it may almost cut the glass... Anyway how many ZDP knives do you have? Is it personal experience, because I did not see it yet.

I cut leather laying on the wood so tip is always cutting wood with quite a pressure applied and I did not see any chips etc. What you sad kind of surprize me.

Thanks, Vassili.

Aha, here your reference:

First:

"Couple that with a hard, relatively brittle, steel like ZDP-189 and the probability of chipping is fairly high."

This is kind of generic statement did not based on real experience.

Second:

"My SE D4 ZDP-189 is chipping WAY more than it should.

The first chip I let slide because I was slicing up an old mattress and hit the springs HARD. But the two new chips happened while ripping out old carpet, I didn't hit any staples that I am aware of.

All and all I gotta say I am a little disappointed in ZDP-189..."

Wow! I guess if you try to cut spring hard you may chip any blade and old carpet with whatever is in there - sand may be dirt. I do not see here any base for you statement like ZDP is only for soft materials...

Third from the same thread about VG10 now and it is not about hitting spring hard but about cardboard:

" After having a passaround SE VG-10 Caly 3 get a large chip from cutting a cardboard shipping tube, I'm not sure VG-10 wouldn't have chipped under similar cutting circumstances as you describe with the old carpet. VG-10 will be tougher than ZDP, but when you are talking 20 degree included angles or less and high carbide stainless (whether it be VG-10, S30V, or ZDP) you can expect some damage when hitting metal and cutting up tough stuff (I hear old carpet is very tough on edges, but haven't cut it myself)."

From all what I see I can make conclusion that you are making up something here.

Again many manufacturers not able to get any ZDP189.

Thanks, Vassili.

I'm not sure what your issue is with my position, but you can knock off the offensive tone. I'm more than happy to explain myself without the accusations of me "making stuff up". I have no benefit from making ZDP sound or appear inferior. And I fully understand that I may be wrong. I've used countless suggestions from other people's experience to help with my buying decisions from these forums, with satisfactory results. With the rise of ZDP being used in more models and it increasing the prices along with them, I'm going to look for both reasons to buy and not to buy before gambling with my limited budget.

Here are some of the things I'm talking about:

(From Spyderco Forums)

The biggest chip came from cutting cardboard and hiting a copper packing staple. The smaller chips in the more forward teeth, I am not really sure where they came from( these chips are very small). I cut a a lot of stuff, cardboard, rope. paracord, twigs in the yard, food, ribs, you name it. When I get a knife like this I spare it no cutting task. The D4 has been used and then used some more, but never abused.

Yes he chipped it initially on a staple, which is understandable. Keep in mind that the rest of the things that he's mentioned are the normal things he cuts and is comparing it to his previous experiences with other steels.

(From Spyderco Forums)

The first chip I let slide because I was slicing up an old mattress and hit the springs HARD. But the two new chips happened while ripping out old carpet, I didn't hit any staples that I am aware of.

The spring is understandable. The carpet isn't. I simply don't know why it would chip and I'm not going to guess. To speculate in either direction of whether there was something in the carpet just shows a bias towards ZDP without any good reason.

(From BF)

I dunno.

I keep hearing about these ZDP leeks with tips snapping, and there's always someone responding that the knife was being used improperly. a friend of mine had his tip snapped off when his girlfriend used it to cut a sandwich. (hit the table underneath) whup! that's what sandwich knives are for!

cutting sheetrock? whup! that's what razor knives are for!

boring small holes through soft plastic! well, that's what drills are for!

Any decent pocketknife should not need an itemized check list for cutting items. If we all wanted to carry or retrieve a fingernail file, a drill, a sandwich knife, a boxcutter, a linoleum knife, scissors, etc. we probably wouldn't bother adding a poclet knife to the list.

My $6 Opinels have performed every one of these tasks without breaking. As have my $15 Douk Douk, my SAK, my (new) Hackmann Butterfly knife, etc. Heck, for that matter I've worked my wifes Rainbow Leek without a trouble. and my nine year old has been carrying a Chive for a year now, and it's been boyproof. I believe the fact of the matter is that Kershaw made an oops with this series. Not saying they're bad at all (I like kershaw) but everybody makes mistakes, even our favorite knife makers and manufacturers.

If these cheap knives can do such tasks without breaking, I would think Kershaw could make a $140 knife meet the same standards. Afterall, I'm not comparing it to prybars, but other thin bladed knives.

I do however, agree with the idea of returning it to Kershaw. I"ve no doubt they'll make things right if given a chance to. (then I'd sell or trade the new one off in a New York minute)

good luck, whatever you decide!

Let's keep in mind at least some of these people are comparing the performance of this steel to prior experiences with similar materials/uses and the exact same models that have different steels.

I haven't decided for myself yet if ZDP is worth it. This is why I phrased it "I haven't been sold yet". I just have concerns as a consumer. I am allowed to have those, right? I really don't need you to be attacking my position just because you've already come to a positive conclusion about ZDP.

 

[nozh2002]

I am allowed to have those, right? I really don't need you to be attacking my position just because you've already come to a positive conclusion about ZDP.

Personaly, I think anybody may have any opinion and make any statements. However it is fair to kniw what this opinion and statements is based on. Because if it is base on personal experience and on many reports from real users this is one kind of opinion, but if it is based on single questionable case and there is no personal experience behind this is other case.

I guess consumers need to know when someone saying:

"I'm reading too many cases of chipping under normal conditions, particularly for knives with serrations."

It is good to know that it is really only one report of mattress spring and old carpet cutting. Which is unusual I guess usecase.

Also consumer should know that this stated "consern":

"If I were to use a knife with ZDP only for softer materials and didn't like to sharpen often, then ZDP might be a good candidate for me. But that's not the case for me. I need something that's fairly "versatile", if you can call it that. I just like the ability to cut from light plastics to cardboard without having to worry if my blade has chipped."

is also based on same questionable case.

As well as consumer need to know that otherwise ZDP is best steel for folders on the market today, but of couse it is expensive, however Spyderco really did majic and make it available for almost everybody.

The question is clear to me - I am not attacking you, I just try to understand where this came from and now I know.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Kaizen1]

Personaly, I think anybody may have any opinion and make any statements. However it is fair to kniw what this opinion and statements is based on. Because if it is base on personal experience and on many reports from real users this is one kind of opinion, but if it is based on single questionable case and there is no personal experience behind this is other case.

I guess consumers need to know when someone saying:

"I'm reading too many cases of chipping under normal conditions, particularly for knives with serrations."

It is good to know that it is really only one report of mattress spring and old carpet cutting. Which is unusual I guess usecase.

Also consumer should know that this stated "consern":

"If I were to use a knife with ZDP only for softer materials and didn't like to sharpen often, then ZDP might be a good candidate for me. But that's not the case for me. I need something that's fairly "versatile", if you can call it that. I just like the ability to cut from light plastics to cardboard without having to worry if my blade has chipped."

is also based on same questionable case.

As well as consumer need to know that otherwise ZDP is best steel for folders on the market today, but of couse it is expensive, however Spyderco really did majic and make it available for almost everybody.

The question is clear to me - I am not attacking you, I just try to understand where this came from and now I know.

Thanks, Vassili.

I'm amazed at your continual avoidance of the other cases and summarizing what I've shown as one example. The focus that you're giving to one of the examples (mattress spring) that I've already said is understandable is strange. I for sure have phrased in my previous posts like I have in fact come to the conclusion that ZDP does chip under normal conditions when I'm not 100% sure. My mistake. I certainly don't want to mislead other potential customers who are considering buying a ZDP blade.

Since you keep avoiding these, let me make it clear for you:

1) One person said that he chipped his ZDP blade twice on some old carpet. This is NOT including the mattress spring, which is 100% understandable.

2) Another example said that he was cutting things that he normally cuts and noticed that his ZDP blade chipped noticeably more than his other blades. He did mention a chip from a staple, which again is not included and understandable.

3) The 3rd example was about a guy's ZDP Leek. The tip broke off when he was trying to bore a hole into some soft plastic. Some people may think that he shouldn't be doing that. Keep in mind that he did the exact same thing on the same plastic surface with a Rainbow Leek (440A) with no problems at all. 1/8" of the tip broke off.

And from these examples, the only thing you mention are the spring and carpet. Now yes, I need to watch my wording and make sure that I'm not jumping to conclusions prematurely. Like I've said, I have made my mind up yet.

 

[rifon2]

Benchmade and Spyderco are 2 very different companies, each run by strong personalities.

Benchmade doesn't make any knives in Japan, while Spyderco's most famous
models are made there.

Benchmade obviously has the Axis lock which gives their knives a completely
different look, feel, and action than the Spydie liner or back locks.

Spyderco is much more adventurous and let's say kinetic, or restless,
tweaking current models and introducing new models at a quick pace.

Benchmade is more conservative.


Both companies are of course based in the USA and both provide fantastic
customer service. They both make great - but quite different - products, and
I don't think either company is "better" than the other. They are different from each other
even though the main business of both is manufacturing and selling knives.

I really do think they are both doing their level best to make the best product for the dollar that
they know how.

 

[mr.trooper]

benchmade has a lot of great products, but im more of a Spyderco fan. If spyderco had 1/2 the awesome fixed blades of Benchmade they would be unstopable.

 

[nozh2002]

I'm amazed at your continual avoidance of the other cases and summarizing what I've shown as one example. The focus that you're giving to one of the examples (mattress spring) that I've already said is understandable is strange. I for sure have phrased in my previous posts like I have in fact come to the conclusion that ZDP does chip under normal conditions when I'm not 100% sure. My mistake. I certainly don't want to mislead other potential customers who are considering buying a ZDP blade.

Since you keep avoiding these, let me make it clear for you:

1) One person said that he chipped his ZDP blade twice on some old carpet. This is NOT including the mattress spring, which is 100% understandable.

2) Another example said that he was cutting things that he normally cuts and noticed that his ZDP blade chipped noticeably more than his other blades. He did mention a chip from a staple, which again is not included and understandable.

3) The 3rd example was about a guy's ZDP Leek. The tip broke off when he was trying to bore a hole into some soft plastic. Some people may think that he shouldn't be doing that. Keep in mind that he did the exact same thing on the same plastic surface with a Rainbow Leek (440A) with no problems at all. 1/8" of the tip broke off.

And from these examples, the only thing you mention are the spring and carpet. Now yes, I need to watch my wording and make sure that I'm not jumping to conclusions prematurely. Like I've said, I have made my mind up yet.

I am wondering how noisy you will be when you will make you mind. I made my mind about you - do not see any reason to continue, I have nothing to say any more. You did not convince me that there is reason for this statement:

"I'm reading too many cases of chipping under normal conditions, particularly for knives with serrations."

first you came up with one now it is three (one is not related to serration and chipping - broken tip, another - just poped up) - not too many for me any way. It seems like you are in argueing mode and desperately came up with something to make you position look better...

As well as other statement about soft materials only etc...

I hope you will get one ZDP knife finaly and start reporting what happen with same energy you broadcasing the fact that you did not make you mind yet.

Best wishes!

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Kaizen1]

I am wondering how noisy you will be when you will make you mind. I made my mind about you - do not see any reason to continue, I have nothing to say any more. You did not convince me that there is reason for this statement:

"I'm reading too many cases of chipping under normal conditions, particularly for knives with serrations."

first you came up with one now it is three (one is not related to serration and chipping - broken tip, another - just poped up) - not too many for me any way. It seems like you are in argueing mode and desperately came up with something to make you position look better...

As well as other statement about soft materials only etc...

I hope you will get one ZDP knife finaly and start reporting what happen with same energy you broadcasing the fact that you did not make you mind yet.

Best wishes!

Thanks, Vassili.

This for sure isn't going anywhere. I've already admitted my mistakes and yet you still point them out. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I'll end it here.

 

[coop1957]

For what it is worth - My Son has used a Delica SE with VG10 steel for nearly 9 years in the USN. He is a Boatswains Mate and works in a high salt environment. He says that rust is not been a problem. He does mimimal maintenance on his knife and I know he does maximum abuse to it.

 

[GarageBoy]

FWIW- NGK finally has the HG Grips in