Bent or Broken Does it matter?

R

RobertHankins

Joined
Jun 10, 2001
Messages
1,385
After researching Combat/Fighting knives I am in a dillema.

Would you rather have a knife that will break or one that will bend during HARD use?

Yes they are not prybars (Well most of them anyway) and shouldn't be used as such but...when push comes to shove in real world use they get used for many things they were not designed to do.

Opinions
 
Bend. At least that way, I could flip it over and "bend it back" to straight. If it broke, all I'd have is a handle with a shortened blade with no pointy tip.
 
I would rather have one that bends, but that needs a lot of weight put on it to do so. Once a blade is broken it is basically useless. If it bends it can be put in the other way around and you can try to pry again. This will also straighten the blade out again. Not perfectly, but it will make the blade usable again.
 
I'd like a nice clean snap. Of course, I'd like a good amount of strength before it goes, but when it does, I want a clean break so I can regrind a new point.
 
If it can be bent, it can be straightened enough to get it back into the sheath.

When a blade breaks there is no guaranty that it will do so near the tip so that you can grind on a new point. When prying something heavy or thick, it is just as likely to break halfway down the blade, or near the handle.
 
Personally, I think I would tend to agree that I would prefer the blade to bend, rather than break. I guess my train of thought would lead me to think that if the blade started to bend while doing something silly, like using it as a prybar, it would at least give me some warning that I'm pushing the limit.

I haven't run into many situations where I've had to use my knife in a way it wasn't designed to, as I try to have the right tool for the job at hand. However, I also realise that not every situation will allow you that convenience. Being an owner/user of a few big blades, I admit that some of them get used pretty hard, but I try to keep from reaching that stupidity point with them.
 
My train of thought is that if I assess that a situation requires that I use a knife as a prybar, I've made the decision that the knife is expendable and will be retired as soon as possible. After all, I would think that I've caused some invisible stresses on the metal and may fail under less that extreme uses in the future. It's probably just paranoia on my part, but those are just my personal guidelines.
 
I agree with those who have previously posted their preference for the "clean break".

The question originally posted stirred something in my memory and after a bit of searching I remembered that my preference for the clean break came from a few brief remarks on the subject that seem to make sense to me and are as follows:

"1.) Regardless of its relative strength, a blade should break rather than remain bent. Bent blades are virtually impossible to straighten. Bent blades cannot be returned to their sheath. Bent blades are severely impaired in function. Broken blades can still be utilized in a variety of ways, either by re-hafting them or simply holding the sharpened edge in your hands as our knuckle dragging ancestors did. The fragments can still be carried in the sheath and need not be bothered with otherwise. Ask any samurai - would he rather his sword break or bend if it failed? Invariably, the choice is a break. Bent knives are useless knives. Broken knives are still nominally useful."

This is taken from Combat Knife Selection: Science in Action by Kevin McClung and found on his website.

I guess from rather flaming threads in the archives that some of his opinions and positions are controversial and caused quite a stir at one time, but on this point I find his argument persuasive.
 
BEND.
I have heard this argument countless times. Back when MadDog McClung had a forum on KF there was a thread about bending or breaking.It was a long time ago so forgive me if I don't have some major facts straight. In it he stated he would rather have a knife break rather than bend. In some torture testing, military folks I belive were going through other knives as well as one of his. One fella was doing pull ups on his (MD's) knife and it bent the tip. Now, my question was that if the tip would have broke instead of bent would his knife have failed the torture test? More than likley. If ANY knife breaks before it bends do you(general) call that a ruined knife? Most I'm shure would.


Now, let's look at bending. If I was to bend a knife in a situation that would have broke another knife all I have to do is straighten it the same way I bent it!:eek: and I still have a WHOLE usable knife. How many people would call a bent knife a ruiend knife? Not many would I'm shure. As for the bent knife not fitting back into the sheath, I have had an occasion where this happened(bent knife). I bent the knife back as straight as I could and it went back into its sheath, albeit a little tighter but in the sheath all the same. When I got back home I corrected the bend in my shop and it's back to good as new.
So lets see, was prying on something, bent my blade, bent it back, still have a good knife with blade intact. OR..... Broke my blade prying on something and snaped by knife in half. Hmmmm..... But at least it still goes into the sheath just fine! :D

Note:
Robert, I'm not razzing you about your question of getting a bent knife back into it's sheath, it's just that this seems to be the main reason I allways hear as to why people would rather have their knife break rather than bend.

It brings up an interesting point though. Have any of you noticed this? Why is it such an important factor to get that knife back into it's sheath that they(general) would rather have two peices of a knife fit the same way in the sheath as it did before it broke rather than have their straightend bent knife fit snugger than it did before?
Can't you just carry it out of the sheath?

And how big of breaks or bends is everyone talking about? For me, no matter how big the bend is I would still rather have the chance of getting a semi straight knife, or tip, or whatever out of the ordeal than any amount of breakage.
 
Interesting:D
Like a bad penny that name keeps cropping up...but oh well everbody is entitled to an opinion. Although that Camp's thought process I want to distance myself from.
My train of thought began as almost every thing I read pointed to having a Blade that will bend X amount of degrees and so on. How many Factory blades will pass a master bladesmiths test?
Yet I see very valid points on both sides of this coin. I really want to hear from you guys to see what your thoughts are.
 
Wray, as far as MD saying a Samurai would rather his sword break rather than bend is off key. Japanese swords were differentially hardened. They woud bend before they broke.;)
 
Folder<
Good one! You can Raz me all you want (Been married for over 25yrs) Have very thick skin:D
Never take any of this stuff on a personal level. It's just really interesting to get others opinions. I have broken plenty of knives in testing and by accident..always makes me unhappy to break/bend a good blade.
BUT I always learn from each experience.
 
I tend towards bent, however it depends on where the "weak spot" is located.

Generally, I'd rather have a bent blade than a broken one, but if it's only the tip broken off, then I wouldn't mind it too much when push comes to shove. Not being able to put the knife back into its sheath would be a minor problem in a survival situation IMO. I doubt that a blade broken in the middle would be very useful.
And: a bent blade can eventually be bent back to true while it's hard to fix a broken one.
 
As a safety issue, I would much rather have a bent blade than a broken one. I can see the bend coming, and ease off on the pressure. The knife may be ruined, but I'm not going anywhere. But if the blade snaps, I may keep on going, like brakes failing going downhill. I may even get gashed on the sudden raw edge.
 
Robert,
Your point about MD vs. the Samurai is well taken. I am still of the opinion that the clean break is preferrable to the bent blade due to other points of argument cited. After more careful reading I am in agreement with you though about the "off key" nature of the inclusion of the Samurai reference, when as you indicated, it seems to be counterproductive. How odd. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
I want the blade to flex, not bend. I want seven inches of ¼" blade with five inches of handle so that when it breaks, I still have six inches of blade. I will do insanely abusive things with this knife, thou shalt not taper my tang. A nice sweeping sharp clip will reduce weight nicely, thank you. Saber grind the sucker, I'll be sharpening on rocks out here and those oil drums (I guess it's all plastic now) are tough.

A hilt with a swell to it please but no thanks to finger grips (don't know just how many ways I might have to hold it) A flat/ phillips double gaurd might be a bit much unless you include a torx subhilt, so plain tarditional stuff'll work (ok you can add a plain sub-hilt)

Does it sound like I'm ranting at all? Not really, just describing some work by a vet that knows what he would have used. Something along the lines of a De Leon jungle bowie or a randall 14 is what the bar is set at. (ok, we'll lump in that oddity of the no saw BMF[it's a little long though])

Cheers

Oh yeah, meant to ask. Aren't all them bladesmith test knifes compromised to survive the tests?

GC
 
For...

BIG BLADES: Bend. It can likely still be straightened and re-straightened when it bends again. Broke... well, if you needed a shorter knife ya should've bought one! :p

SHORT BLADES: Still the vote is bend, but christ, if it bends in "normal" use, then that blade has problems big time.

My .02 cents.

-Jason
 
Bend.

A knife can bend very significantly and still remain completely useful. as long as the edge is intact it will cut. The problem is more cosmetic then it is limiting. On the other hand a glass hard blade that fractured under impact can leave you with virtually nothing. The first thing likely to fracture off is going to be the edge.

n2s
 
Id prefer my knives to flex, but break rather than take a permanent bend however a bent knife is probably more useful than a broken one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top