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I have read this many times.
Just what does it mean, as a practical matter if "a deal is not done until both sides are happy here"?
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"Besides a deal is not done until both sides are happy here."
- Thread starter Thomas Linton
- Start date
I have read this many times.
Just what does it mean, as a practical matter if "a deal is not done until both sides are happy here"?
Pretty much what it says. If one person isn't happy with the deal, it isn't a closed issue - both people should be trying to work it out until both are happy. Obviously there are limits to it, like time and fairness. It's stupid to call up a seller/buyer weeks later and complain of buyers remorse, for example.
Heres how I see it:
If you sell a knife to someone, the money you receive still belongs to them until you hear back that they received the knife and are happy with the condition as described. Until that point, the seller is honor-bound to reverse the sale if the buyer feels the knife was misrepresented. Same goes for trades.
On the other hand, if a buyer receives the knife just as it was described but simply decides it isn't for them, they should NOT ask for a refund.
If you sell a knife to someone, the money you receive still belongs to them until you hear back that they received the knife and are happy with the condition as described. Until that point, the seller is honor-bound to reverse the sale if the buyer feels the knife was misrepresented. Same goes for trades.
On the other hand, if a buyer receives the knife just as it was described but simply decides it isn't for them, they should NOT ask for a refund.
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So it's a manner of "honor"?`
You state two distinctly different standards:
1) Happiness. And is the seller's happiness relevant? Seller's remorse?
2) Accuracy of description. And if there is, as often happens, a difference of opinion as to whether the description was accurate?
You state two distinctly different standards:
1) Happiness. And is the seller's happiness relevant? Seller's remorse?
2) Accuracy of description. And if there is, as often happens, a difference of opinion as to whether the description was accurate?
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If I sold you a knife, describing it as lightly used, and you bought it.
Your money is not mine until the knife is in your hands and you're happy with it.
If the knife was a little more used than described and you were unhappy, I would refund your money and you would return the knife.
Same with a trade.
Now if I sold you a knife, it was EXACTLY as described, and you were happy with the condition but just didn't like the knife, I do not owe you a refund as this is the knife(in the condition as described) that you bought. It's not my fault the knife isn't for you, you're the one who decided to buy it.
Your money is not mine until the knife is in your hands and you're happy with it.
If the knife was a little more used than described and you were unhappy, I would refund your money and you would return the knife.
Same with a trade.
Now if I sold you a knife, it was EXACTLY as described, and you were happy with the condition but just didn't like the knife, I do not owe you a refund as this is the knife(in the condition as described) that you bought. It's not my fault the knife isn't for you, you're the one who decided to buy it.
It does come down to honor because what we're discussing is not an official rule. It's just common sense for reasonable people who want to treat each other fairly and protect their good name. This is a community, not a flea market.
Seller's/buyer's remorse have no place here. It IS clearly listed in the rules to be 100% sure you want to sell or buy an item before you post.
As for descriptions of the knife, either they are accurate or they aren't. I don't see how there could really be a difference of opinion if the seller listed the item properly. My sale threads read like critiques when I'm selling a used knife. If I miss a flaw and the buyer notices it and doesn't want the knife, I'll gladly issue a refund.
Found this thread from a couple months back:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1026673-Trade-Rule-Clarification-Requested-Please
Seller's/buyer's remorse have no place here. It IS clearly listed in the rules to be 100% sure you want to sell or buy an item before you post.
As for descriptions of the knife, either they are accurate or they aren't. I don't see how there could really be a difference of opinion if the seller listed the item properly. My sale threads read like critiques when I'm selling a used knife. If I miss a flaw and the buyer notices it and doesn't want the knife, I'll gladly issue a refund.
Found this thread from a couple months back:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1026673-Trade-Rule-Clarification-Requested-Please
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I always make it a point to note in my trade threads that any trade is not completed until both sides are happy. Normally, in my emails back and forth with a trader I make it clear that we both need to let each other know when the knife arrives and whether we are happy or not. I won't mark a knife traded on my trade thread until I hear back that the person is happy. Once the person is happy, thread marked traded, I will give the person positive feedback on itrader. And, I hope that they would give me positive feedback. I then consider the knife trade complete.
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+1, I mark a knife "Trade Pending" and then when the trade is done and the other person is happy with their end I mark it "Traded".
What it's truly about is being honest to the best of your knowledge, holding up your end of the bargain, and making things right if they go wrong on your end.
What the rule means is that if a transaction happens and the buyer/seller/trader is not happy that the deal is not done until the error is fixed and both parties on the ends of said transaction are happy with their end.
What it's truly about is being honest to the best of your knowledge, holding up your end of the bargain, and making things right if they go wrong on your end.
What the rule means is that if a transaction happens and the buyer/seller/trader is not happy that the deal is not done until the error is fixed and both parties on the ends of said transaction are happy with their end.
Interesting discussion, thanks for asking the question Thomas Linton. Here's some of my thoughts on the subject.
I generally put a note with every knife I trade or sale saying "let me know if you are happy with the knife". I have not had any complaints or returns yet so I assume all my trades or sales have resulted in a happy collector. I doubt it's because the knife was described perfectly every time but I do strive for exactness in descriptions and pictures. I think of it more in terms of the overall experience of the deal. Maybe the buyer/trader was happy or maybe just content but not let down enough to complain and put in the time to reverse the deal.
For example I recently made some purchases and trades for 4 knives described as new in box. In my opinion none was new in box and one was obviously not. For the knife that in my opinion was obviously not new in box I contacted the seller and he was more than generous in resolving the problem (thanks cpio!
). In fact I had to adjust his offer because I felt he was giving way too much in my favor and it wasn't fair for him. The other 3 knives I kept and never complained to the sellers/traders. I told myself that the deals were fair even though I didn't receive exactly what I expected. In my opinion the cash or trade value I gave was equal to what I received. I wasn't necessarily happy but I was content. I also figured reversing the deals would involve way more time and expense than I wanted to expend.
Another recent deal I was not happy with but I did it because I felt like I got more in value than I gave. The deal was with liukang on another forum since he's banned from Bladeforums. I traded a knife and cash for one of his knives. I was asked to pay for shipping of his knife to me, pay 5% for paypal fees and then leave positive feedback on the forum we dealt from plus Bladeforums. In my opinion what he requested was ridiculous. I met some of what he asked but avoided the excessive fees and Bladeforums feedback. As I said before I did the deal because I felt I got more in value than I gave. I was able to trade a knife I would never use and was not able to sell at the price I wanted. I guess I was happy with the results of the deal but the terms were stupid and convinced me to avoid him in the future.
So in my opinion asking that both parties be HAPPY is great but expecting it every deal is not realistic. I want other collectors to be happy with what they get from me but based on my experience as a buyer/trader it's never a 100% every deal every time thing.
I generally put a note with every knife I trade or sale saying "let me know if you are happy with the knife". I have not had any complaints or returns yet so I assume all my trades or sales have resulted in a happy collector. I doubt it's because the knife was described perfectly every time but I do strive for exactness in descriptions and pictures. I think of it more in terms of the overall experience of the deal. Maybe the buyer/trader was happy or maybe just content but not let down enough to complain and put in the time to reverse the deal.
For example I recently made some purchases and trades for 4 knives described as new in box. In my opinion none was new in box and one was obviously not. For the knife that in my opinion was obviously not new in box I contacted the seller and he was more than generous in resolving the problem (thanks cpio!
). In fact I had to adjust his offer because I felt he was giving way too much in my favor and it wasn't fair for him. The other 3 knives I kept and never complained to the sellers/traders. I told myself that the deals were fair even though I didn't receive exactly what I expected. In my opinion the cash or trade value I gave was equal to what I received. I wasn't necessarily happy but I was content. I also figured reversing the deals would involve way more time and expense than I wanted to expend.Another recent deal I was not happy with but I did it because I felt like I got more in value than I gave. The deal was with liukang on another forum since he's banned from Bladeforums. I traded a knife and cash for one of his knives. I was asked to pay for shipping of his knife to me, pay 5% for paypal fees and then leave positive feedback on the forum we dealt from plus Bladeforums. In my opinion what he requested was ridiculous. I met some of what he asked but avoided the excessive fees and Bladeforums feedback. As I said before I did the deal because I felt I got more in value than I gave. I was able to trade a knife I would never use and was not able to sell at the price I wanted. I guess I was happy with the results of the deal but the terms were stupid and convinced me to avoid him in the future.
So in my opinion asking that both parties be HAPPY is great but expecting it every deal is not realistic. I want other collectors to be happy with what they get from me but based on my experience as a buyer/trader it's never a 100% every deal every time thing.
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You bring up a good point robcelani. That is, a buyer should be reasonable in their expectations as well.
It all comes back to treating the other person the way you would like to be treated. "Happy" is not really an accurate description. It's more like satisfied.
It all comes back to treating the other person the way you would like to be treated. "Happy" is not really an accurate description. It's more like satisfied.
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I agree. It is more like being satisfied with the trade.
Sometimes when we expect something brand new it may not be exactly brand new, but when we get it, it's close or is acceptable for us and we're satisfied with the trade.
Sometimes we expect something extremely used, see the trade as fair, and then receive a knife that completely exceeds our expectations and we're extremely happy.
Sometimes we receive exactly what we were promised and again are happy.
Other times, we're extremely disappointed and underwhelmed by the experience and that is when something needs to be done to make sure all sides are satisfied.
I've done several deals and as long as the trader is honest to the best of their knowledge, I'm happy with that. I am also honest to the best of my knowledge and haven't really had problems.
Sometimes when we expect something brand new it may not be exactly brand new, but when we get it, it's close or is acceptable for us and we're satisfied with the trade.
Sometimes we expect something extremely used, see the trade as fair, and then receive a knife that completely exceeds our expectations and we're extremely happy.
Sometimes we receive exactly what we were promised and again are happy.
Other times, we're extremely disappointed and underwhelmed by the experience and that is when something needs to be done to make sure all sides are satisfied.
I've done several deals and as long as the trader is honest to the best of their knowledge, I'm happy with that. I am also honest to the best of my knowledge and haven't really had problems.
I agree with ya'll about using the term "satisfied". Sometimes descriptions are done to the best of a persons ability and still some things can be missed. I had a trade I made once, I describe my knife as best I could. When my trade partner got the knife he tried to move the clip and couldn't get the screws out as they had been loctighted. I had no idea about it as I had gotten the knife in a trade, and had never tried moving the clip. I apologized and offered to trade back or do something to help make him happy. He elected to keep the knife and I guess was "satisfied ". I felt bad that I didn't know about the clip or mention it in my description.
I have a bit of a catch 22 to throw into the mix. I recently sold a blade and the condition was described as lightly used (an RD7). The problem is that although the writeup was accurate, the buyer removed the grips and found rust underneath (which was a complete surprise to me as I never removed them). I offered a full refund if he would like but I haven't heard back on it and he mentioned he was ok and planning to keep it. That's fine and all, but I'm still feeling bad for the fact that there was rust underneath the handles. Maybe I should have disassembled it and checked, but it honestly never occurred to me to do so in the 6 years I owned it. What do you folks think? I offered a full refund but is a partial refund for the screwup a better way to go? Any advice on this woud be appreciated.
Not singling you out here BladeChick77, just an example. I think this is the grey area that sometimes leads to these threads. As for me, when I sell a knife, I don't care what the circumstances are, any reason whatsoever, if the buyer is not happy and wants to return it, so be it. Reasonable amount of time and returned in same condition is all I care about. Just not worth the hassle to do it any other way to my way of thinking.
To me it's about getting a response of some sort from the buyer stating they are satisfied, either as an email or by iTrader feedback. If it's a trade I don't use the knife I received or if it's a sale I don't spend the money until the other party somehow acknowledges they are satisfied. If I don't hear from them in a reasonable amount of time I will ask. I don't think I've ever had to ask more than once.
Most people are very good about communicating that they have received the knife and are happy with it. Of course, being accurate with your descriptions and staying in communication during the sale probably help with that.
If somebody were to engage in "buyer's remorse" then I would take it back in the condition it was sent, assuming they pay the return shipping. I have no desire to get into a protracted internet battle or have my 100% feedback tarnished because somebody changed their mind.
Most people are very good about communicating that they have received the knife and are happy with it. Of course, being accurate with your descriptions and staying in communication during the sale probably help with that.
If somebody were to engage in "buyer's remorse" then I would take it back in the condition it was sent, assuming they pay the return shipping. I have no desire to get into a protracted internet battle or have my 100% feedback tarnished because somebody changed their mind.