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Best bonded stone to replace a coarse DMT?

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Baron Mind, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    94
    Mar 30, 2018
    I'm looking for a bonded diamond/CBN stone to replace the coarse DMT in my sharpening progression.

    I like a coarse DMT very much, but I really wish it maintained it's initial aggression. I've tried using various extra coarse diamond plates, but I dislike the larger sized particles.

    I sharpen stone in hand, and I like to be able to see the when the apex contacts the stone. Diamond plates with abrasives under 325 grit don't give me as crisp a visual. So I'm looking for a bonded diamond/cbn stone in the 300-400 grit range.

    Any suggestions?
     
  2. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    The Matrix diamond hones, (Edge Pro), and Venev bonded diamond hones in 250 grit and 240 grit respectively are close matches to the DMT coarse stone.

    I don't have any information about other bonded diamond hones.
     
    Mo2 likes this.
  3. PeterS84

    PeterS84 Sharpening addict, collector of "super steels" Gold Member

    226
    May 9, 2018
    My own experience with the Venev stones (240) is that the particle size is similar to a DMT course but it seems to cut more slowly, probably due to the fact that the diamond particles don't "stick up" in the same way they do on a DMT plate. I enjoy using them but prefer the DMT in lower grits. For me, the higher grit ranges are where the bonded stones seem to excel.
     
  4. Atama

    Atama Gold Member Gold Member

    174
    Mar 9, 2009
    PeterS-

    Are you saying that you would go with DMT for say extra course, course, and fine, then switch over to then switch over to the Venev 800&1200 OCB stone? I ask because I am looking to get into diamond stones for s90 and s110 (might need to grab some maxamet too!). Does that progression seem to make sense?

    Or would you go a different combination route?
     
  5. Strauss95

    Strauss95

    72
    Dec 17, 2012
    I have both the Venev bonded stones, and DMT plates. Typically I use the DMT plates first with coarse or extra coarse, then use either DMT fine or the Venev 400. But I always finish with the higher grit Venev stones. The only DMT plates I use anymore since getting the Venev stones are the extra coarse, coarse, and fine.
     
  6. Alberta Ed

    Alberta Ed

    Jun 29, 1999
    Try cleaning your DMT with BreakFree CLP. I've used that on mine for decades -- it lifts out the swarf and restores cutting efficiency. Put a light coat on, leave it for an hour (or even overnight) and wipe clean with a soft dry cloth.
     
    Chris "Anagarika" and Blues like this.
  7. PeterS84

    PeterS84 Sharpening addict, collector of "super steels" Gold Member

    226
    May 9, 2018
    I think that progression makes sense. I have all of those stones and have had very good luck using them in that order. It all depends on how polished you like your edges but, done properly, those will give you a very nice edge. I have S90V, S110V, and Maxamet and have been quite happy with the results I've gotten using those stones, although I don't typically go to the extra course unless I'm doing a full reprofile or the edge is severely damaged for some reason.
     
    Chris "Anagarika" likes this.
  8. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Baryonyx walkeri Dealer / Materials Provider

    Mar 8, 2008
    In the coarser range you can use silicon carbide just fine.
     
  9. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    Extra fine sharpening advice via a virtual oxymoron. :p
     
  10. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    94
    Mar 30, 2018
    I have a 2300 matrix stone that I like quite a bit, however 250 was a little coarser than I wanted. I was leaning towards a metallic bonded diamond stone, gritomatic has one at 400 grit, but I felt I could work with that given their reputation for fast cutting, and practical sharpening has a 300, but I didn't know how long the shipping would. They are both pretty pricey, at 86 and 80 respectively, plus a bottle of ferric chloride would have to be purchased.

    However, I randomly saw somebody mention a 300 grit matrix stone, and although it isn't listed on the edge pro website, I took to Google and found one at a site called Oldawan tools for 60 bucks and free shipping. It is now en route. I'll let you guys know what I think after it arrives and I get some work in on it.

    Thanks!
     
  11. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    440
    Apr 28, 2017
    Sorry but the 300 Matrix stones are the same diamond as the 250s, my mistake. My old brochure lists the 80 micron diamond as 300 and currently lists it as 250 grit, which is what messed me up. I made one batch of stones marked 300 and then changed it to 250. That and EP decided they liked the 250 a little better. I only made two 67 micron stones, which is the 300 grit, and they are both accounted for.

    Of course there are a lot more sizes available than the six I make. Would you want the full range available so you could choose exactly what you want with maybe our suggestions for grit progressions using alternative grits? The 800 is an interesting stone and it sounds like the 450 may be what you want.
     
    Mr.Wizard and Chris "Anagarika" like this.
  12. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    94
    Mar 30, 2018
    Thank you for the heads up. I'm trying to cancel the order with the vendor for now.

    Where can I purchase a 450? Something in the 50-40 micron range is what I'm looking for. 45 if I could pick.
     
  13. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    94
    Mar 30, 2018
    Is the 650 35 micron?
     
  14. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    440
    Apr 28, 2017
    Yes it is. The 450 is 50 micron and I only got enough diamond to make 2, one for me and one for EP to try out, so it is not available at this time. I made these a few years ago when I made 2 sets of every grit readily available from my source between 80 micron and 4 with one each to 1.5 micron. We picked the best grit progression and those are the stones that made it to production. The 80 grit, 160 micron, came later and there is one 110 micron stone too. The 450 would cut about like the 650 after a fresh dressing and leave a similar bite on the apex.

    Have you tried finishing with your 250 using NO pressure yet? Make 2 or 3 edge trailing passes and see what that does. Try removing the burrs with a strop of some sort. If you don't have anything try your pant leg. With decent steel the burrs won't be too bad. Keep in mind that you will get a finer edge if you have sharpened a few knives since the stone was last dressed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
    Eli Chaps likes this.
  15. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    94
    Mar 30, 2018
    I canceled the 250 for now and ordered a 50/40 metallic bonded diamond stone. I'm sure the 250 is a great stone, but I don't use an edge pro, I freehand on the edge pro stones. I also freehand a little unconventionally. I sharpen stone in hand, but I hold the stone eye level and do my best work when I can visually verify that my apex is contacting the stone just right. On top coarse a stone, the surface is raised, and it makes it hard to see if I'm where I need to be.

    I plan on picking up an 1100 or 4000 at some point, but I would LOVE if EP picked up more grits.
     
  16. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
    I got the m.2 hapstone from the kickstarter and got the metallic bonded diamond stones in 100, 200, 500, 1200 and 2500 grit maybe @Gritomatic has some info on them?

    Sofar I'm enjoying them the few times I've used them. I'm not sure when or if they will be available but the 100 was fairly fast on some s35vn I sharpened with it. I haven't got much more time with it yet but they worked well. Will be interesting to refresh them when they wear down.

    They should be similar to the metallic cbn bonded stones. That are well reviewed on the forum. Before I used the kme beast 50 grit to hog off material and the kme 140 grit to apex. But I like the metallic bonded diamond stones are better. I have some coarse venev stones that are great but when I bought them they really didn't go that low in grit to hog off metal.
     
  17. Lapedog

    Lapedog

    Dec 7, 2016
    Any chance of bar keeper’s friend damaging the adhesive which bonds the diamonds to the plates?
     
  18. There's no 'adhesive', per se. The diamonds are bonded by the nickel itself, to the plate. It won't be harmed by Bar Keepers Friend. The oxalic acid in BKF is reactive to iron or oxides of iron, which is why it cleans up steel swarf so well. But the nickel is essentially inert to any such reaction, and won't be harmed by it.
     
    Lapedog and willc like this.

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