Best carbon steel for a standard sized stockman?

Ferahgo

Ferahgo

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All in the title. I am looking to order a new stockman soon, and i want to know what some of the better folder carbon steels are
 
GEC does a great job with their 1095.
And Their blades have excellent geometry for cutting. (I know this sounds silly, but the edge angles and blade profiles are actually more important than the blade steel.)

If you really want "carbon steel", then you have limited your self to the 1xxx series. Their are many non-stainless alloys, but actual "carbon steel" does not contain anything but Iron, manganese, silicon, and carbon.
 
Not sure what a standard size stockman is, but 1095 is a high quality (and commonly available) carbon steel. Good stuff.

-- Mark
 
As Frank said, geometry is the key. I prefer a flat ground blade over a hollow 7 days a week, unless i am needing to do slicing on the surface (not having a blade enveloped in material). GEC 1095 is great. However I did some looking and think that D2, while not a "carbon" steel, is a good non stainless idea for a stockman. Very good edge retention. Queen has some offerings in D2, but I have not tried any of them. However you will possibly need to do edge forming on a Queen as a lot of foks say their factory grinds are inadequate.

Connor
 
If you're looking for a production knife, I believe that 1095 and Case's CV are your only choices right now for a carbon steel. CV might not be a true carbon steel, but for our purposes it behaves enough like a carbon steel that most would place it in this classification. Between the two I prefer 1095, but it's pretty close and Case's CV makes a fine knife.

If you're just looking for anything non-stainless, Connor hit it on the head. D2 is one of my favorite blade steels. It's just about as maintenance free as you can get. You sharpen it when you first get the knife and it'll hold that edge for an insanely long time. It's also corrosion resistant enough that I've never had any rust issues on a D2 blade at all. I'm sure that if you subject it to extreme conditions it'll start to rust, but that's true of any steel. It'll also take on a nice, subtle patina with use. It's nothing near the patina that 1095 or CV will develop, but it's enough to cover up the scratches that the blade will pick up from regular use.
 
Boker still makes knives in carbon steel. Just make sure you get one marked "Solingen" and not just "Germany"

I believe they use a German steel called C75. I'm not a metallurgist, but it sharpens and works much like American 10** in my experience.
 
Rachel is absolutely correct, Böker Germany make very decent carbon knives. I can recommend their Stockman and in particular, Whittler models.
 
As recent as 2013, company historians at Case define their CV as either simply 1095 or a 'modified' 1095 (with small amounts of chromium and vanadium added). I found that info in comments from Case Historians Lisa Boser-Miller (posted in 2005) and Katie Shonts (posted in 2013) in searching Case's own forum for details on the makeup of CV.

That aside, Case's CV is very easy to sharpen up to a razor, and holds up very well. The best example I've seen of 1095 done right is in Schrade's older USA knives, many of which can still be found 'as new' online.


David
 
Thanks for the heads up on the Boker. I don't know enough about their knives to have ever picked one up. I know that some of their lines have a good reputation, while others have not gotten good reviews. One of these days I'm going to have to sit down and perform the due diligence required on my part to know how to pick out a good one.

David, this isn't the first time I've read that Case's CV is 1095, or close enough as to make no difference. I haven't owned many Case knives, but it seems that they don't patina nearly as easily as Schrade or GEC's 1095. Then again, for the last couple of weeks I have been carrying a Schatt & Morgan that's labelled 1095 and it hasn't patina'd nearly as much as I had expected. The S&M and CV both seem to hold an edge just about the same as a Schrade or GEC, and they all take an edge about equally. I'm guessing that the difference in gaining a patina is due to the different finish put on the blades by the various companies? Maybe it's the way they're heat treated? I'm pretty sure GEC and Queen are both sending their blades out to Peters for heat treating, but maybe they're requesting different heat treatments. This is all speculation and guessing based on what I perceive to be differences in the way my knives behave. It's just as likely that the differences are all in my head.

Given the choice, I'd go with the Schrade/GEC variety but it's close enough that I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of them. :cool:
 
Cory Hess said:
Thanks for the heads up on the Boker. I don't know enough about their knives to have ever picked one up. I know that some of their lines have a good reputation, while others have not gotten good reviews. One of these days I'm going to have to sit down and perform the due diligence required on my part to know how to pick out a good one.

David, this isn't the first time I've read that Case's CV is 1095, or close enough as to make no difference. I haven't owned many Case knives, but it seems that they don't patina nearly as easily as Schrade or GEC's 1095. Then again, for the last couple of weeks I have been carrying a Schatt & Morgan that's labelled 1095 and it hasn't patina'd nearly as much as I had expected. The S&M and CV both seem to hold an edge just about the same as a Schrade or GEC, and they all take an edge about equally. I'm guessing that the difference in gaining a patina is due to the different finish put on the blades by the various companies? Maybe it's the way they're heat treated? I'm pretty sure GEC and Queen are both sending their blades out to Peters for heat treating, but maybe they're requesting different heat treatments. This is all speculation and guessing based on what I perceive to be differences in the way my knives behave. It's just as likely that the differences are all in my head.

Given the choice, I'd go with the Schrade/GEC variety but it's close enough that I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of them. :cool:
Click to expand...

I've read that even among very similar, or even identical, steel types, factors such as heat treat/hardness/tempering differences can make a noticeable difference in how a blade will corrode or patina. Most often, it seems to be the harder blades (higher RC) that are more sensitive to rust, or will patina much more easily. I've also read that very small and seemingly insignificant differences in elemental composition can affect it as well (I remember reading how tiny amounts of copper added to the steel will change how it corrodes, for example).

On top of that, the finish on the blade will absolutely affect how it patinates or rusts. I've also noticed my CV blades, all tumbled by Case to a high polish, weren't as quick to patina like Schrade's 1095 (comparing to my 1970s-vintage 8OT, with a more 'satin' finish). So, bottom line, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see such differences between different versions of 'identical' steels. Even a spec like the '1095' designation only specifies a range of what's allowable for the elemental composition (such as carbon content somewhere between ~0.85 - 1.05%, for example). Regarding the carbon content, I once even read that carbon has been described as a 'catalyst' for rust/corrosion, implying small changes in the amount of it will directly influence corrosion resistance in any one particular steel.

I'm also liking Case's CV in it's very similar behavior to Schrade's older 1095 blades. Schrade might have a small edge in hardness, as they purportedly hardened them higher than Case does. But I've also noticed that those differences, if any, are essentially a wash in normal usage of either one, for me. Most of the wear issues I see in my knives are due more to the lack of wear-resistance (i.e., hard carbides) in both steels, and less due to issues like edge-rolling or chipping (attributable to heat treat, and therefore hardness). Either steel is so easy to make sharp and maintain it as such, they're essentially worry-free and a breeze to live with.


David
 
None of the minutiae of steel type really matters in day to day usage of the blades. Carbon steel can vary batch-to-batch, and the geometry of the blade matters far more than the composition of the steel, for cutting performance, so the best thing to do is focus on the reputation of the manufacturer (are they known for providing a good blade that performs well, is flat-ground from stock that is not too thick, and is properly hardened and heat treated? Is their sharpening from the factory heavy-handed in a way that might overheat the edge and draw the temper from that part of the blade?)

GEC, Boker, and Case all have good reputations when it comes to their carbon blades.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
...That aside, Case's CV is very easy to sharpen up to a razor, and holds up very well. The best example I've seen of 1095 done right is in Schrade's older USA knives, many of which can still be found 'as new' online.


David
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I agree with the entire post, but wanted to highlight this part in particular. Case CV is good, and my old USA Schrade Old Timer knives take an edge like a champ.
 
Schrade heat treated their Old Timer steel to Rc 60. GEC hardens theirs the highest in current factory production today at Rc59. I believe that Case hardens theirs around 56-58. FWIW. Schrade also had those amazing full flat grinds that were nice and thin, along with equally amazing distal tapers.
 
I been happy with my Old Timers . Get to hunting online and you will be happy. The 8OT or their Lumberjack.
 
Thanks for all of that information, David. It's nice to know that these differences aren't just in my head. :D

I'm not at all an expert on steel, and I don't think I ever will be. I do find these discussions interesting though, not because they'll influence my buying decisions but because they explain what I'm experiencing with knives I already own. I'd agree with what Eric and Frank have already said in that the geometry is going to affect your experience much more than small differences in steel composition.
 
Cory Hess said:
Then again, for the last couple of weeks I have been carrying a Schatt & Morgan that's labelled 1095 and it hasn't patina'd nearly as much as I had expected.
Click to expand...

I've been carrying this knife every day since April 1st. I've used it to cut up apples, mangoes, strawberries, steak, all of the stuff that would normally leave a patina on a 1095 blade. It doesn't show any sign of patina. I got suspicious and put a drop of vinegar on the tang today to see if it would react. A half hour later there was no change in appearance at all. I decided to up the ante and submerge the whole blade in vinegar. It's been sitting there for a couple of hours now with no change at all. Just to make sure I wasn't delusional, I held a GEC 1095 blade in the vinegar for about 5 minutes and it developed a pretty dark patina. So, I know it's not some weird thing where I got a batch of eco-friendly, non-acidic vinegar or anything like that. :p

What are the odds that Queen accidentally put out a batch of knives labelled 1095 that were actually 420HC or something like that? I get that there are variations between different batches of 1095, but to show no sign of patina at all after 2 hours submerged in vinegar? That doesn't seem right to me.

 
Cory Hess said:
What are the odds that Queen accidentally put out a batch of knives labelled 1095 that were actually 420HC or something like that? I get that there are variations between different batches of 1095, but to show no sign of patina at all after 2 hours submerged in vinegar? That doesn't seem right to me
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I have found that the higher the polish the harder it is to get a good even patina. Try going over the blade with a scotch brite pad, cover it in a light coat of mustard, and leave it out so it can get plenty of air. If you wash it off after an hour and don't have a patina, it is most certainly 420.
 
I'm betting it's stainless. At least the edge bevel would be dark, as it's been sharpened, and certainly without polishing.
 
Cory Hess said:
What are the odds that Queen accidentally put out a batch of knives labelled 1095 that were actually 420HC or something like that?
Click to expand...

I'd say 100% by the looks of things. Perhaps some more folks will chime in with the same issue now that you've addressed it.
 
I shot an email off to Ryan Daniels to see if he could offer any insight. I'll update here when I hear back from him. Thanks for your responses. I wanted a little confirmation on what I was seeing before I went back to Queen and accused them, even if politely, of marking stainless steel as 1095.
 
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