Best clamp to use as guide for freehand reprofiling

quattromori

quattromori

Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
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Hi folks,
thanks to the valuable suggestions on this forum, I'm learning how to freehand and it's a great and rewarding journey.
I'm still far from considering myself good at sharpening, but I'm on the right path and I'm happy about it.
I only own traditional knives, and sharpen them freehand (on sandpaper or stones). Following OWE's suggestions, I've been using a DMT aligner clamp as guide for reprofiling knives, and it did help alot to both sharpening and learning (and training muscle memory).
Now, lately I've had the need to reprofile narrow blades, and I found out that my pure freehand skill isn't good enough (yet :p), and the DMT clamp doesn't really work fine on such blades. Is there any other "similar" clamp that works fine on narrow blades?
Thank you for your suggestions.

:cool:
 
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Just tried reprofiling my first knife free hand a few days ago, a Wenger Patriot. I found by using a few coins taped to the edge of the stone to do a quick reference helped immensely. I had some really good results till I lost my patience and sped things up at the end and screwed up a bit. The angle is still higher than what I usually like which I did on purpose so I have room to take it down more since I knew I might screw up. So next time around I will probably use 1 coin and 2 layers of tape to get the angle I want.

Not what you want, but I honestly don't know of any better clamps as I haven't look into it. And honestly having more options available is always nice. Hope you find what you are looking for.
 
Fausto,

I've had better luck with at least one incarnation of Lansky's clamp (purchased with a diamond kit in the last 5-6 years or so), when sharpening smaller & narrow blades as found on traditional knives. The clamp has a milled notch in the end of the jaws, which is intended for these smaller blades. The Lansky clamps seem to be hit-or-miss though, in terms of which ones work fairly well for this, and which don't. Lots of variation in the feedback I've seen posted about them, on the forum. I also have a much older kit from Lansky (20+ years old), and it's clamp didn't handle small blades well at all. It's issue was in the precision (or lack of same) in milling the notch, which had rounded inside corners and the milled surfaces also weren't flat, but instead had some warp in them. Small blades just wouldn't seat firmly in the back of the notch, so they always tended to slip out or otherwise move (slipping laterally, or pivoting up/down). Here's a pic of my 'good' Lansky clamp, holding the pen blade of a 5344 SS Case stockman. The brass screws seen in the pic are a 'mod' that I included to get the taller stock screws out of the way, when sharpening at lower angles:


David
 
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David,
maybe I should just give the Lansky a try and see how it goes...hopefully luck will be with me. :)
The truth is, there aren't many clamps around (to my knowledge), and I find it a useful help in reprofiling freehand (and I have no intention of changing my system, now that I'm learning) :)

:cool:
 
quattromori said:
David,
maybe I should just give the Lansky a try and see how it goes...hopefully luck will be with me. :)
The truth is, there aren't many clamps around (to my knowledge), and I find it a useful help in reprofiling freehand (and I have no intention of changing my system, now that I'm learning) :)

:cool:
Click to expand...

Forgot to ask, how narrow a blade do you have in mind? I ask because, sometimes the DMT clamp can be 'shimmed' to accommodate something like a spear blade on a SAK (see pic below, of my clamp shimmed with a piece of zip-tie); but that's about as narrow as I've been able to do, with that clamp. In that specific case, it worked great however.

c391d7f6.jpg



David
 
I just bought the Lansky setup a couple weeks ago and so far the smallest blade I have been able to sharpen with it is the pen blade on my GEC 76 Outlaw Jack and even then I had to use the 25 degree setting which it turned out to be the one that the factory edge was set at anyway. I need to get some of those screws you are talking about because that was the reason I couldn't go any lower was it was bumping into the top screw that has that big red plastic knob on it. My clamp also doesn't have that little milled out notch your talking about and Lansky said they do not do that anymore so unless you can find a used clamp it wont have that. What I did was wrap some blue painters tape around the parts of the clamp that will come into contact with the knife blade and that seems to work very good and keeping it clamped in there nice and tight and it protects the blade from getting scratched. I just bought the standard 5 stone deluxe kit for $30 shipped and I'm very pleased with it so far. I think for some serious re-profiling the xx-course diamond would be a good addition to my kit though.
 
jkulysses said:
I just bought the Lansky setup a couple weeks ago and so far the smallest blade I have been able to sharpen with it is the pen blade on my GEC 76 Outlaw Jack and even then I had to use the 25 degree setting which it turned out to be the one that the factory edge was set at anyway. I need to get some of those screws you are talking about because that was the reason I couldn't go any lower was it was bumping into the top screw that has that big red plastic knob on it. My clamp also doesn't have that little milled out notch your talking about and Lansky said they do not do that anymore so unless you can find a used clamp it wont have that. What I did was wrap some blue painters tape around the parts of the clamp that will come into contact with the knife blade and that seems to work very good and keeping it clamped in there nice and tight and it protects the blade from getting scratched. I just bought the standard 5 stone deluxe kit for $30 shipped and I'm very pleased with it so far. I think for some serious re-profiling the xx-course diamond would be a good addition to my kit though.
Click to expand...

That's the 2nd time I've heard that Lansky apparently isn't doing the milled notch in the clamp anymore; that's a shame.

One other thing I've used, to get a better grip with the clamp, is to use a piece of mid/high-grit wet/dry sandpaper with the backing side wrapped against the blade spine (to avoid scratches, obviously), and the 'grit' side against the inside faces of the clamp. This has worked especially well if sharpening wet, with water. The heavy paper backing of the sandpaper still holds very well, which is somewhat in-step with it's intended use anyway (made to 'cling' to a hard backing, using only water).

Those brass screws, I got them at either Lowe's or Home Depot, if you go looking for them; don't remember specifically which, at the moment. An additional upside to using brass is, it won't dig into the softish aluminum of the clamp as much, if at all, when tightening the screws down. Steel screws chew up the aluminum quickly, if the screws are tightened very aggressively.


David
 
I am not the brightest candle in the wax museum, but how can you have a clamp (jig), sharpening free hand? It would seem to me to be one or the other. Using a KME or a Lansky is not free hand.
 
NRA said:
I am not the brightest candle in the wax museum, but how can you have a clamp (jig), sharpening free hand? It would seem to me to be one or the other. Using a KME or a Lansky is not free hand.
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing when I read it the first time but I think it was just a poor choice of words that makes it confusing. I'm pretty sure what he was actually saying is he is trying to improve his free hand sharpening but in the mean time he isn't good enough to be able to actually re-profile and set a proper bevel freehand. So he would like a clamp setup to get the initial angles right then freehand for maintenance afterwards.
 
jkulysses said:
I thought the same thing when I read it the first time but I think it was just a poor choice of words that makes it confusing. I'm pretty sure what he was actually saying is he is trying to improve his free hand sharpening but in the mean time he isn't good enough to be able to actually re-profile and set a proper bevel freehand. So he would like a clamp setup to get the initial angles right then freehand for maintenance afterwards.
Click to expand...

That's how I read it as well. A clamped & guided setup can (if one is paying attention) teach a lot of proper 'muscle memory' in sharpening a blade. I've always noticed this in using DMT's Aligner clamp with a bench stone, in particular, which fairly closely mimics a good freehand stroke on the same stone. And freehand does become much, much easier if one is 'practicing' on a blade with good, symmetrical grind and fairly wide bevels (as perfectly set the first time around, using a guide). That's essentially how I learned to freehand, in 'maintaining' the edges I originally set on one of my three guided setups.


David
 
Maybe I could have chosen better words; English is not my native language (nor my second one), so sometimes I'm in trouble when I try to explain certain technical aspects :rolleyes:
I'm only using the clamp to keep the angle stable. Just the clamp, and sharpen (rebevel) on a stone or sandpaper, with the same movement I use without the guide/clamp. On "standard" sharpening and touch ups, I just do it freehand (again, on stones or sandpaper), but so far I can't really rebevel narrow blades freehand.
Since I'm not really skilled yet, the lack of "bevel feedback" when reprofiling small blades tricks me.
I do not have the whole DMT setup nor I want it :)
David, I found myself in trouble with two pen blades I need to reprofile, one on a SAK Spartan and the other on a Case SBJ.

:cool:
 
quattromori said:
Maybe I could have chosen better words; English is not my native language (nor my second one), so sometimes I'm in trouble when I try to explain certain technical aspects :rolleyes:
I'm only using the clamp to keep the angle stable. Just the clamp, and sharpen (rebevel) on a stone or sandpaper, with the same movement I use without the guide/clamp. On "standard" sharpening and touch ups, I just do it freehand (again, on stones or sandpaper), but so far I can't really rebevel narrow blades freehand.
Since I'm not really skilled yet, the lack of "bevel feedback" when reprofiling small blades tricks me.
I do not have the whole DMT setup nor I want it :)
David, I found myself in trouble with two pen blades I need to reprofile, one on a SAK Spartan and the other on a Case SBJ.

:cool:
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I'm thinking both of those pen blades should be at least as big or bigger than the Case 5344's pen, pictured in my earlier post. I haven't tried using my Lansky clamp with a bench stone or sandpaper; just used it with the guided rods. But I'd think it should be OK in the manner you described (might benefit from adding something smooth to the ends of the clamp arms, so it'll slide easier on a tabletop).

Don't know if Lansky or any of their dealers has any 'old stock' of the notched clamps anymore, if they're no longer including them in kits. Might be worth calling them or sending an email, to see if they do. If they don't have any, and you'd still like to pursue it, send me an email with your address, and I'll send you mine. You can keep it, if you find it useful (or even if you don't... ;) ). I think I'm at a place now, where I could live without it; it'd be nice to find it a new home. :)

Let me know.


David
 
David,
you are far too kind. Thank you for your help and offer.
Anyway, I will try emailing Lansky first, and see if I'm lucky :)

:cool:
 
Quattromori,
What a nice gesture to receive.
Perhaps you should take him up on it?
I'm sure you can return the favor one day? Pass it on perhaps?
Just my thoughts.
 
Check out razoredgesystems.com. I have no experience with their products, but they make a couple sizes of clamps for just this purpose. Click on "products" and then "guides."
 
G. Scott H. said:
Check out razoredgesystems.com. I have no experience with their products, but they make a couple sizes of clamps for just this purpose. Click on "products" and then "guides."
Click to expand...

Thank you for your suggestion, I will check them out.
Do you have experience with them? do you think the smallest one could handle such narrow blades?

:cool:
 
If you know someone with a miter saw, have him or her, cut you a set of wedges to cover the sharpening angles you need. I suggest 10--12--15--17 1/2--20 degrees; these angles should cover most blades. I make them out of composite baluster material. Set the wedge on the surface of your stone and rest the ricasso of the blade on the wedge; this will give you the correct starting angle for your blade.

Fred
 
A quick google search for something similar to what fred describe brought up the Norton Angle Guide Wedge which has 12 & 24 angles, one on each side.
 
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I also though it was interesting anyone would look for a guide to use when free hand sharpening. My advice would be to use a system like Lansky or Sharpmaker. This is the best marriage of using stones and controlling the angle. That said, the plethora of stones out there give you a lot of options when you do sharpen free hand.
 
ziggy925 said:
I also though it was interesting anyone would look for a guide to use when free hand sharpening. My advice would be to use a system like Lansky or Sharpmaker. This is the best marriage of using stones and controlling the angle. That said, the plethora of stones out there give you a lot of options when you do sharpen free hand.
Click to expand...

Lansky, sharpmaker, DMT Aligner, Wicked Edge, Edge Pro, etc they all have their downfalls. Most of them won't do a small pen blade very well if at all. Using a guide with a stone helps develop the skill for free hand sharpening so your not limited by those limitations and you have far more options open to you in terms of sharpening. I own the DMT Aligner and one of the biggest downfalls of it is that it doesn't work well with the smaller blades you typically find in traditional knives, which is the same problem the OP is having.

I can tell you I won't be picking up a Lansky or similar system to reprofile those blades as I doubt it be a big enough improvement to warrant a purchase, and they even stopped putting in that small grove for smaller blades I hear which is another downside. Than the sharpmaker isn't exactly the greatest way to go about it for reprofiling a blade. And to be honest reprofiling a blade with one even if you have the diamond rods I imagine would be quite annoying. Especially if your working with a Queen traditional knife in D2, and to be honest I will only wish that fate upon my worst enemies.

To give you an idea if your not familiar with how small they are pull out a ruler and take a look at how wide 10mm, or if you have a 92mm Victorinox SAK with a pen blade that's how wide is is. I have traditional knives were that is how wide the main blade is, pen blades can get smaller. Clamp systems just don't do to well in this regard sadly which is a shame because I am a fan of traditional slip joints as well. You have to put it in the clamp as far out as possible with tape on the spine for extra grip, than hope that your able to use it without the stone grinding away the clamp instead of the blade which doesn't always happen as sadly lady luck isn't always on our side when it comes to this.

This is actually why in an earlier post I mentioned how I used a few coins as a reference to angle when I reprofiled a knife. I don't know of any clamp system that will properly accept that knife.
 
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