Best clamp to use as guide for freehand reprofiling

[G. Scott H.]

Thank you for your suggestion, I will check them out.
Do you have experience with them? do you think the smallest one could handle such narrow blades?

No, I haven't used them, so I'm not sure how narrow you could go. Email them, and I'm sure they can tell you. :thumbup:

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

(...)I don't know of any clamp system that will properly accept that knife.

This is actually why I brought up the Lansky, as the clamp I have will accept it (and did, as the Case 5344 example in my pic was re-bevelled using the '20' setting on that clamp; the bevel seen on the blade is the result). I also re-bevelled the pen on a Vic SAK using the same clamp.

And, the mention of a Sharpmaker-style sharpener with diamond rods got me to thinking a bit. I have used my A.G. Russell 'Field Sharpener' with diamond rods (included with it; pictured below) to re-bevel S30V blades on a Chris Reeve Sebenza and a Kershaw Leek. Neither one of those took nearly as long as I would've expected, and the bevels produced came out very well. Blade profiles of this size/thickness and smaller, in D2, would be no problem, and the stainless in the Vic and Case blades would be a breeze. With diamond rods, this type of sharpener is worth considering as a '2nd best' option for somebody wanting at least some angle guidance built-in. Another plus, both the Sharpmaker and this A.G. Russell kit allow sharpening to 30° inclusive (that's the only setting on the A.G. Russell, BTW), which would be difficult to do on such a small blade, or impossible, with a clamped rig.

David

 

[Bob6794]

I take a second look at that lansky on how small of a knife it really can take. Seems I overlooked the knife in the clamp in picture, I am impressed to say the least. I am quite happy to be proven wrong when it comes to this.

As for a sharpmaker like device I am not dismissing it for reprofiling it if you say it works as you have a lot more experience than I do. But let me explain why I am not a fan of diamond rods in general and that probably clear up my large disdain for them. As I've had a not so fun experience with them in the past.

As for a sharpmaker like device for reprofiling I must say your experience and mine for reprofiling with diamond rods are 2 very different experiences than. I remember quite a few years back I ended up reprofiling a friends Leatherman with a diamond rod, not a sharpmaker like device but hand held diamond rod and another hand held diamond stone and that was single handily the worst experience I had in terms of sharpening or maintaining a knife. I was using a 400 and 600 grit diamonds and it was a painfully slow going process that took several hours, I don't think having the rods mounted in a base would have helped speed things up either but probably have the opposite effect for me.

I will admit the knife he handed me was blunt, as in it was dulled down to the point were there was no bevel and even after putting a significant amount of weight into a cut if it was laying on a desk the best I could manage was to crease a note card so there was definitely some heavy metal removal involved.

I imagine it probably has a lot to do with the width of the work area I had with both the diamond rod and other hand held diamond with how long it took. The diamond rod had a flat side which gave me a flat 5mm face to work with and 2.5in in length for that particular area and is 400grit if my memory serves me correct. The hand held diamond is curved 600grit eze-lap which didn't give me much contact area due to it's curved nature, 4in in length I believe. My DMT 4in stones on the other hand gives me a 22mm face in terms of width so there was a significant amount of stone touching the blade at any one time in comparison. That small contact area with a diamond rod and knife is my big gripe with those systems after this experience, as I could be handed the same knife again in the same shape and be done with it in 20-40min using those DMTs in comparison to the several hours it took me. I found that surface area made a major difference in sharpening speed.

I know the sharpmaker has a flat face to it which gives it a wider surface area to work with which is nice. But I honestly can't think of a way where you can speed up the process of reprofiling a blade by doing an up and down motion which wouldn't feel strange when I try to mimic the motion you use for such a device. So for me the only natural way to use it would just be on a downward stroke and waste time to go back up and repeat the process. And to me that would annoy me to no end along with not having more options for diamond rods on that device. Though it does redeem itself quite a bit if what I hear is true and the diamond rods are quite coarse at around 68micron from what I've read on a quick google search which put it pretty close to the DMT XC.

 

[stitchawl]

Check out razoredgesystems.com. I have no experience with their products, but they make a couple sizes of clamps for just this purpose. Click on "products" and then "guides."

Let me second the RazorEdge system. They make three different clamps (no guide rods for this system) that fit large blades, very small blades, and arrow heads. The small clamp does an excellent job holding the smallest of the Swiss Army knive's pen blades with no problem.

The angle adjustments for this clamp are not the easiest to use, but once set, they stay in place well. The RazorEdge system was developed by John Juranitch for his dry-stone method. I bought one of the earlier models back in '73 when John quickly put a razor edge on a heavy double edged stainless steel belt buckle knife for me at a trade show in Houston. Took him less than 5 minutes to finish both edges. I was impressed enough to buy the kit. Unfortunately, the clamps DO wear out after a while (in my case about 30 years) will need replacing. On the other hand, they work very well, as do the stones he sells for them.


Stitchawl

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

(...)
As for a sharpmaker like device for reprofiling I must say your experience and mine for reprofiling with diamond rods are 2 very different experiences than. I remember quite a few years back I ended up reprofiling a friends Leatherman with a diamond rod, not a sharpmaker like device but hand held diamond rod and another hand held diamond stone and that was single handily the worst experience I had in terms of sharpening or maintaining a knife. I was using a 400 and 600 grit diamonds and it was a painfully slow going process that took several hours, I don't think having the rods mounted in a base would have helped speed things up either but probably have the opposite effect for me.

I will admit the knife he handed me was blunt, as in it was dulled down to the point were there was no bevel and even after putting a significant amount of weight into a cut if it was laying on a desk the best I could manage was to crease a note card so there was definitely some heavy metal removal involved.

I imagine it probably has a lot to do with the width of the work area I had with both the diamond rod and other hand held diamond with how long it took. The diamond rod had a flat side which gave me a flat 5mm face to work with and 2.5in in length for that particular area and is 400grit if my memory serves me correct. The hand held diamond is curved 600grit eze-lap which didn't give me much contact area due to it's curved nature, 4in in length I believe. My DMT 4in stones on the other hand gives me a 22mm face in terms of width so there was a significant amount of stone touching the blade at any one time in comparison. That small contact area with a diamond rod and knife is my big gripe with those systems after this experience, as I could be handed the same knife again in the same shape and be done with it in 20-40min using those DMTs in comparison to the several hours it took me. I found that surface area made a major difference in sharpening speed.

I know the sharpmaker has a flat face to it which gives it a wider surface area to work with which is nice. But I honestly can't think of a way where you can speed up the process of reprofiling a blade by doing an up and down motion which wouldn't feel strange when I try to mimic the motion you use for such a device. So for me the only natural way to use it would just be on a downward stroke and waste time to go back up and repeat the process. And to me that would annoy me to no end along with not having more options for diamond rods on that device. Though it does redeem itself quite a bit if what I hear is true and the diamond rods are quite coarse at around 68micron from what I've read on a quick google search which put it pretty close to the DMT XC.

Ordinarily, I also tend to 'preach' the benefits of larger surface area for heavy grinding. The thing that surprised me, in re-bevelling the two S30V blades on the AGR sharpener's diamond rods (also short, at 4" length), is that they did go as relatively fast as they did. I've sometimes (often) warned about how rod-type sharpeners tend to focus pressure on a small contact area of the blade's edge, and they do. Used carelessly, this focused pressure can create burrs or even chip an edge on high-RC steels. In this case, I think the flipside is, that focused pressure can sometimes be used to advantage, in terms of how it can speed up the grinding. And in the case of this thread in particular, using the relatively small surface area rods on the also-small traditional pocketknife blades wouldn't incur much of a penalty in grinding time. Small traditional pocketknife blades in thin edge profiles (as compared to the 1/8" or bigger stock seen on 'modern' knives or fixed blades) don't need to have much steel taken off anyway; so, even a D2 blade on a Queen traditional folder shouldn't take very long.


David

 

[J D Wijbenga]

Hi Fausto, I have the razor edge clamps. You can have them e-mail send!

 

[stitchawl]

Frankly, although I like the smallest of the Razor Edge clamps for very tiny blades, and used the Arrow head clamp back when the best replaceable arrow head were the old Bear Archery style, I find the large clamp to be inferior to the DMT or GATCO clamps for working with larger blades. But for a clamp for really small blades, the Razor Edge works well. Take J D Wijbenga up on his offer. The little clamp works well.


Stitchawl

 

[Bob6794]

Ordinarily, I also tend to 'preach' the benefits of larger surface area for heavy grinding. The thing that surprised me, in re-bevelling the two S30V blades on the AGR sharpener's diamond rods (also short, at 4" length), is that they did go as relatively fast as they did. I've sometimes (often) warned about how rod-type sharpeners tend to focus pressure on a small contact area of the blade's edge, and they do. Used carelessly, this focused pressure can create burrs or even chip an edge on high-RC steels. In this case, I think the flipside is, that focused pressure can sometimes be used to advantage, in terms of how it can speed up the grinding. And in the case of this thread in particular, using the relatively small surface area rods on the also-small traditional pocketknife blades wouldn't incur much of a penalty in grinding time. Small traditional pocketknife blades in thin edge profiles (as compared to the 1/8" or bigger stock seen on 'modern' knives or fixed blades) don't need to have much steel taken off anyway; so, even a D2 blade on a Queen traditional folder shouldn't take very long.


David

If I am not mistaken wouldn't you be wearing down the diamond rods faster than due to the increase pressure, which to my understanding will be ripping out the diamonds?

As for Queen having thin blades, it's true for a good portion of their patterns. Unfortunately they tend to not follow that for the patterns I like, one example is my favorite pattern the Canoe :grumpy:. I like my thin blades but they decided to beef up their main blade on that one to the point where it's about twice as thick as the pen blade. So it's actually around 1/8in thick, if it was the same thickness as the pen blade there be a good chance that knife be in my pocket right now. Though off hand that is probably one of, if not the worst offender. A good chunk of their other models tend to be slimmer.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

If I am not mistaken wouldn't you be wearing down the diamond rods faster than due to the increase pressure, which to my understanding will be ripping out the diamonds?

As for Queen having thin blades, it's true for a good portion of their patterns. Unfortunately they tend to not follow that for the patterns I like, one example is my favorite pattern the Canoe :grumpy:. I like my thin blades but they decided to beef up their main blade on that one to the point where it's about twice as thick as the pen blade. So it's actually around 1/8in thick, if it was the same thickness as the pen blade there be a good chance that knife be in my pocket right now. Though off hand that is probably one of, if not the worst offender. A good chunk of their other models tend to be slimmer.

I knew that question would be asked.

The 'focused pressure' I refer to doesn't imply excessive pressure, as of the type that'd ruin a diamond hone. Instead, it's enough to make the diamond work quickly while maintaining a light & controlled touch. Because the rounded rods or hard-edged triangles focus the contact pressure, a light touch is always mandatory. For me, I've always tried to calibrate my touch on V-crock sharpeners to sort of emulate using the knife edge to 'brush' a light layer of dust off the rods. That's what I try to keep in mind, when making a stroke on either of the diamond or ceramics. It really does come down to 'letting the abrasive do the work' with these, as leaning into the rods is always counter-productive, for many reasons.


David

 

[Bob6794]

And I knew I get an answer that I haven't thought of, which is why I asked it . That's actually the best description I've heard for using those v-crock sharpeners.

 

[quattromori]

I thought it might be good to update this thread a bit.
I emailed Lansky's customer service and they were very kind and promptly replied.
They are going to release a revised version of their clamp, with a rubberized part to improve grip and avoid slipping, but without the old notch.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I thought it might be good to update this thread a bit.
I emailed Lansky's customer service and they were very kind and promptly replied.
They are going to release a revised version of their clamp, with a rubberized part to improve grip and avoid slipping, but without the old notch.

That's interesting news, Fausto. I'd wondered for a long time, if any of the clamped guide manufacturers would (or could) come up with a more 'grippy' solution for blades in the clamps, of any size. Seems to me, it ought to do more for the problem than the notched solution(s), which were also vulnerable to problems created by the milling & finishing of the clamps (holding surfaces not flat/square, slippery finish, etc.). I'll be curious to hear or see what they come up with.

( And my offer still stands; if you're getting frustrated in looking for something to work with, I'll still send you the clamp I have. It's not the perfect solution, but at least it's been useful. )


David

 

[jkulysses]

KME has come out with a revised clamp for their sharpener that shows them sharpening the little blade on a Victorinox Classic at a 17 degree angle which is pretty impressive. I'm waiting for some reviews to come out on it before I grab one but right now it is sounding very appealing.

 

[quattromori]

David, I'm quite curious as well. By the way, can you PM me? It seems you aren't getting my emails
Yes, I have seen the new KME clamp for small blades. Unfortunately, it seems that this clamp needs to be used with the whole KME system.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

David, I'm quite curious as well. By the way, can you PM me? It seems you aren't getting my emails
Yes, I have seen the new KME clamp for small blades. Unfortunately, it seems that this clamp needs to be used with the whole KME system.

Email sent; hope it gets to you. I don't have PM priveleges currently, as a Registered User.


David