best cold blue?

Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
428
i need some. want it to give a good uniform blacken on some steel parts i have.

any help?
 
I just ordered some stuff called Blue Wonder from cheaperthandirt.com. It is supposed to be the best, so they say. It looked pretty promising so I bought some. It has gold and silver in it, supposed to help the blue adhere to the steel, or something like that. They also say it is as durable and as dark as hot salt bluing. I am still skeptical, but time will tell.

I will let you know how it works.
 
The best I've ever used was C.S.Van Gorden. It works fast, colors deep, and best of all, doesn't leave that cold blue stink. A lot of engravers use it.
1-715-568-2612. They are in Bloomer Wisconsin. It's called Vans instant gun blue. They sell direct, it won't be in stores.
 
I have heard good things about Vans also. The Blue Wonder stuff is not supposed to stink either. There is a video you can download about the blue wonder. Here is the link:

Blue Wonder
 
Funny how often folks are working on the same thing!

I'm looking into blueing small parts. I've used Oxphoblue for years from Brownells it works, it's OK, worth a try. Besure to clean the part and warm it up. If you just want a hard black finish, get the metal too hot to touch first. That Blue Wonder stuff sounds like something to try.

However, I did some research into hot bluing. There's a million options - most of which require special equipment and nasty chemicals. One of the old tried and true methods is Nitre Blue. Supposed to be one of the best looking. Basically potassium nitrate is melted in a pot and the part dunked in. Brownells sells it as NitreBlue Bluing Salts. But everything I've found is that it's just potassium nitrate. AKA saltpeter.

One post I found said that Nitre Bluing is not a chemical process. The magic is not a reaction between the saltpeter and the steel. Rather is is that the melting point of saltpeter (something in the range of 570f) is close to where the heated metal blues. In otherwords isn't not the saltpeter; it's the heat.

Now it turns out that 600ish is where lead melts too (depending on tin content). So being a bullet caster I just happen to have a melting pot and thermometer. Soon as I get a chance I'm gonna try bluing in lead. If it works it's something you can do with an old pot on the stove. (free lead is available at your local tire store)

If that doesn't work I'm gonna buy some saltpeter at the hardware store and try that. If anyone's interested I'll post the results.

Just some ideas,

Steve
 
Before it happens:

Please don't read this post and run out and try anything! I'm still researching where I can get pure saltpeter. Plus the stuff is really dangerous in liquid form - like organic compounds bursting into flames or exploding.

The lead option is quite safe - IF you are familiar with working with lead.

So please don't run out, get some wheel weights and melt them down in the kitchen. You're wife won't like me very much!

Steve
 
hate to do this as I'm sure you've heard this a million times, as an experience caster, but make sure your blade is perfectly clean, and momst important, no wtaer, before you try this. had too much "fun" with water in lead pot.

Also, an idea I've had for reloaders in here(which I'll just throw in here, since it's off topic) is to try fronteir damascus(I believe that was the naem of damascus from varoius scraps of steel) with the clips from wheel weights. Near as I can tell they are a low to medium carbon steel, and while I wouldn't suggest using them for knives, might make for a cheap source of some extra steel to make fronteir damascus bolsters or guards.

ANyways, be interested in your results. Also if it does blue, and if you are doing this on a blade, how it ends up affecting heat treat/temper.
 
I would be very interested in seeing your results. I have used potassium nitrate for various things before, one of which was growing tobacco. Which is leagal in certain amounts and for personal use. I am not talking about wacky tabacy either, just plain old burley tobacco. :)

Anyway, I have seen the Nitre Blue salt on the Brownells website and was curious on how they work. From what I understand about "fire bluing" steel, is that it is the oxidation of the steel at that temp is what causes the color. By submerging your steel piece into a melted salt bath or melted lead, how does it allow the oxygen to get to the steel? I gues I can see it with salt peter, there is probably enough O2 in the salt to allow the color to happen, but I would not think that lead would work.

Definitely post your results, I would really like to see how it turns out.

Also, do you think fertilizer grade KNO3 would work as a Nitre Blue salt, or would it have to be pure? If you are looking for a source of salt peter, check out eBay (of course) and also do a search for firework supplies (Skylighter ). Potassiumm nitrate is a key ingrediant in making black powder. Fertilizer grade is cheaper than pure, but not sure how the "conditioners" that they put into the fertilizer would affect the steel.

Edited to add: I agree that liquid KNO3 can be very dangerous. It is a molten salt which will burn and probably stick to you. Plus potassium nitrate is an oxydizer and will facilitate the burning of a fuel like wood, paper, charcoal, etc. It is some wickedly fast stuff that makes up 75% of black powder. Use caution!!
 
Forgot to mention that I'm interested in any method that would let me blue without the smell of cold blue, so will check out the other mentioned products. I really love the look of a good blue, in fact blued a little hunter for friend, and on my O1 was almost black. Was enthralled until I held it close to face to check out join between scales and blade. It had been a while since I had blued anything, but that brought the memories right back. And is what has kept me from doing any more that way. But I have another O1 neck knife that I'm working on camouflage micarta for, which I think would look great with a good dark blue and the camouflage micarta, so please let me know results.
 
hey, I looked up the MSDS Sheet for KNO3 and it listed the melting point at 633F. Sounds like you would have to watch your piece for the color you wanted, instead of just putting it in and check it in an hour. I am going to call that Skylighter place tomorrow and talk to their expert aboout the dangers of melting this salt. I will give you all an update when I get new info.
 
Thanks Laredo7mm & etp777 that is some good information.

Specifically about the oxygen. Hmmmmm. I'm gonna have to sneak out of the house tonight and test this. Can't wait for the weekend.

I've read so much on this I've lost track. Some systems oxidize, some don't.

The melting point on lead is just tooooo close to the melting point KNO3 - I just have to try. I can control the temp from 600 to 900 degrees. You don't want lead over that. I forget the exact temp, but when it starts to glow is starts to give off fumes - not good.

Guys please, please keep me up to date with what you find out. And I'll be sure to pass on what happens in my tests - good or bad.

Oh yeah, RE: on the soak time.

As I understand it, the process was to dip - wait - pull it out and check the color - re dip. The tricks were the temp of the saltpeter and knowing the color to stop. It transitions (as you would expect) from straw to blue to black.

Laredo - I sure hope the lead trick works! KNO3 sounds nasty.

etp777 - I was just going to do bolsters/guards. This method (600+ degrees) will effect the temper for sure. Maybe that's why people went to chemical processes. I'm just looking for that deep blue luster for looks.

Steve
 
now, its been years since ive done this, but i used to buy potassium nitrate at the grocery store from the pharmacy section. i believe it was pure, and in a powder form.

that and a few other things made great smoke-bombs ;)
 
The Nitreblue salts from Brownells are extremly simple to use and the results are predictable each time using a high temp thermometer. I basically put the salts into a stainlees steel pot I bought at Walmart and set the pot on a turkey fryer burner. I keep checking the temp and when I get to the temp I want, usually in the 500-575 degree range dependng on the color I want, I turn the burner down to maintain the temp and submerse the part on a piece of bailing wire. Continue to check the part and when you get the color you want dip it into cold water and spray with WD-40. Allow to cure overnight and you are done. I have been able to get some really neat colors and am totally sold on this system!

Craig
 
I had problems getting the materials I purchased from Novum. One of their company officers came into the Paltalk room and was extolling the virtues of their product and I bit. After several months of waiting, sending emails, they finally came across w/ the product. It took the president of the company to finally get things resolved. If you want to try Novum products my suggestion would be to have the goods in one hand before reaching for your wallet.
 
Hey all, I talked to the expert at Skylighter and he said there should not be a problem with melting Potassium Nitrate. He recommended doing it without an open flame just to be safe. He did mention that metal gindings, and really small stuff could burn in the KNO3. He related it back to fireworks, where they use aluminum powder and titanium powder to make their salutes.

I am going to try the KNO3 soon and I will let you know how it turns out. I am going to try it first with fertilizer grade suff because i can get a 50 pound bag for $15. I am not sure what the melting point will be with the other additives they have in the fertilizer, but it is worth a try. If results are bad, I will try the pure stuff.

More to come.....
 
I found this forum from all of the hits on our website from the links posted by your members above. I would like to offer our services to provide technical assistance to those of you who are trying our products or are thinking about trying them. I am not here to promote them, but to help your members with technical problems you might have.

A few of you mentioned the issue of odor from past bluing experiences. You are correct, with Blue Wonder, there is no residual odor. When you are finished, it will smell like a knife.

Plain ol Bill, I am very sorry to hear you had trouble getting your product. We try to be very responsive to our customers. Please feel free to email me with details and I will make sure we have whatever crack in the system fixed.

Please let me know how I can best serve your needs in this forum group. We are always glad to help and do listen to these boards for input to changing our products.

Let's Blue!
 
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