Best combative blade

roughneckrob

roughneckrob

Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
1,213
Hey guys, I am a huge Emerson fan as far as my defensive knives are concerned. I have a Super Commander, Super Karambit and a La Griffe that I EDC. I was really paying attention to the performance of my Super Comm earlier today during a training exercise which involved me, my super comm and a beef roast wrapped in an old tee-shirt. Although the super comm performed superbly, my crappy little cold steel schimitar out performed it in both cutting and piercing ( Ok so the schimitar is fully serrated and the super comm is not). I am begging to think that the recurve is not properly suited to my training techniques.....I'm kinda happy actually because now I have to buy a new Emerson:D What is the best blade style Emerson makes for combative purposes? Please help, who knows my little girls life may depend on my knifes performance one day.
 
I personaly like up swept blades like you get on the Persian and 8, the Bowie style blade on the 12 and 13 is also a blade shape I find to be quite handy.

The kerambit and La Griffe are great little knives to have about as well, the hawk bill blade shape is a little less versitile but good for purpose.

That said, if I had to have a blade for more combative activities I think my first choice would have to be a spear, machete or hawk. :p:thumbup:
 
It's hard to beat the persian. The bowie is another superb SD and all around design. The karambit is great if you done your part.
 
Haze said:
I personaly like up swept blades like you get on the Persian and 8, the Bowie style blade on the 12 and 13 is also a blade shape I find to be quite handy.

The kerambit and La Griffe are great little knives to have about as well, the hawk bill blade shape is a little less versitile but good for purpose.

That said, if I had to have a blade for more combative activities I think my first choice would have to be a spear, machete or hawk. :p:thumbup:
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I am looking at one of the Bowie' s or the 8. Does the bowie have a wider feel when closed in the pocket? I'd love to carry a machete but I have a feeling the mounties response to that will not be positive.:p

When will the Roadhouse be avalible for public consumption?
 
imho it would be the '12 as its got the best lock, a good grip and a bowie blade, the '8 is also good, i prefer my '13 the best but its a custom, all in all though the best one is the one ya have with ya and the one ya have practiced with, they will all do the job.
 
plus 1 to 8\persian\12\13

i have an 8 and its an awesome "little" blade:) cuts and pierce as hell!
 
I was really paying attention to the performance of my Super Comm earlier today during a training exercise which involved me, my super comm and a beef roast wrapped in an old tee-shirt.
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This probably won't be a concern for you, unless you're attacked by a slab of roast beef. Your Commander is more than up to the task of taking care of your needs, if you do your part, roast beef not withstanding.
 
sns3guppy said:
This probably won't be a concern for you, unless you're attacked by a slab of roast beef. Your Commander is more than up to the task of taking care of your needs, if you do your part, roast beef not withstanding.
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I used a raw roast,wrapped in a tee-shirt to make it alittle more realistic and hung it from a hook just to see which knife I have would perform best.....I hate to say it but cold steel won:mad::thumbdn: I need a new blade style. The persian is the exact same blade as the cold steel schimitar only the schimitar is fully serrated vg10. Is Emerson going to make another run of persians?
 
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You can get onto an airplane with 7!
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Not one of mine, you can't.

I used a raw roast,wrapped in a tee-shirt to make it alittle more realistic and hung it from a hook just to see which knife I have would perform best....
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I think you might have missed the point. Knives don't perform. The users do.

What you have in mind with the knife, and your ability to do it, determines what the knife can do...not the knife.

If you know what you're doing, a Commander is a deadly implement. If you don't, it's a glorified letter opener.

Slashing away at a roast beef won't tell you a lot.

If you know what you're doing, you can replace that knife with chopsticks, and you won't have lost any ground. If you don't know what you're doing, you can replace that knife with a sword, and you won't have gained any ground, either.

It's not the tool; it's the user.
 
sns3guppy said:
Not one of mine, you can't.



I think you might have missed the point. Knives don't perform. The users do.

What you have in mind with the knife, and your ability to do it, determines what the knife can do...not the knife.

If you know what you're doing, a Commander is a deadly implement. If you don't, it's a glorified letter opener.

Slashing away at a roast beef won't tell you a lot.

If you know what you're doing, you can replace that knife with chopsticks, and you won't have lost any ground. If you don't know what you're doing, you can replace that knife with a sword, and you won't have gained any ground, either.

It's not the tool; it's the user.
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Guppy is right. Testing the knives on beef roasts won't tell you much, because a beef roast won't hit back. It won't pressure you, it's not a threat to you, so you treat it lightly, like the hanging piece of meat that it is.

But if you're alone, or with someone you care about very deeply, and you are confronted by someone who wants to take something from you (be it your money, your life, or the life of your loved one) you will react very differently. It's not the knife's performance that will change under duress - it's your own.

Your preparedness and training, and the preparedness and training of your opponent, are the deciding factors in whether or not you survive a self-defense scenario. Having a weapon can give you an advantage, but it won't decide the outcome.
 
I would say that weapon can be a factor. You can do all the prep and training you like, execute your strike correctly and find that your strike is not effective because of the characteristics of the weapon you're using. Yikes! To be effective a weapon must be able to do sufficient damage. To say that roasts don't hit back is like saying that the ballistic gelatin used for bullet testing does not mean anything because it is not applying stress. Of course, in the end it is the user that is the biggest factor but all things being equal the weapon with the capacity to do more damage will be more effective.
 
To say that roasts don't hit back is like saying that the ballistic gelatin used for bullet testing does not mean anything because it is not applying stress.
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Ballistic gelatin doesn't hit back, either.

It won't tell you about your ability to end a fight, it won't tell you if you'll be safe, and it won't change the effectiveness of the weapon you're carrying. Furthermore, ballistic gelatin won't tell you about the outcome of the round you fire, and isn't predictive about the results. It's impressive to see in gun magazines, and it excites and entices...but largely tells you nothing.

Will your ammunition expand, nor not expand? Doesn't matter, if you exercise proper weapon control and marksmanship. Will your round hit with 300 foot lbs of energy, or 400 foot lbs? Doesn't matter; placement counts, penetration to some degree, but ballistic gelatin isn't the real world. It doesn't account for bone, belts, books, and cell phones. Ballistic gelatin isn't shooting back at you at the time, and your heart usually isn't beating at triple pace while you fire with tunnel vision and trembling, ice-cold fingers.

Hitting a roast beef is rather mall-ninjaish, sort of cute in a way, but provides you with little meaningful information about the outcome of a particular blade, bullet, or weapon in a fight. Unless, of course, you're attacked by an army of roast beef wearing tee shirts.
 
sns3guppy said:
Ballistic gelatin doesn't hit back, either.

It won't tell you about your ability to end a fight, it won't tell you if you'll be safe, and it won't change the effectiveness of the weapon you're carrying. Furthermore, ballistic gelatin won't tell you about the outcome of the round you fire, and isn't predictive about the results. It's impressive to see in gun magazines, and it excites and entices...but largely tells you nothing.

Will your ammunition expand, nor not expand? Doesn't matter, if you exercise proper weapon control and marksmanship. Will your round hit with 300 foot lbs of energy, or 400 foot lbs? Doesn't matter; placement counts, penetration to some degree, but ballistic gelatin isn't the real world. It doesn't account for bone, belts, books, and cell phones. Ballistic gelatin isn't shooting back at you at the time, and your heart usually isn't beating at triple pace while you fire with tunnel vision and trembling, ice-cold fingers.

Hitting a roast beef is rather mall-ninjaish, sort of cute in a way, but provides you with little meaningful information about the outcome of a particular blade, bullet, or weapon in a fight. Unless, of course, you're attacked by an army of roast beef wearing tee shirts.
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The point is not about the user's ability but about the effectiveness of the weapon. How can you find out the how effective a weapon is unless you test it on simulate? That's what simulations are for, to find out specific things. Do you train? If you do train, you would understand the need to be aware what your weapon can do. I train in both pistol and FMA and that's where technique comes in. To simplify things, you want to be able to hit accurately and when you hit you want maximum damage that goes for whatever weapon you are using, be it your bare hands or a cannon. Remember the cities in the desert with mannequins? Even when using nuclear weapons you want to find out what happens when you hit. It's not all about delivery. Even the best technique fizzles out when a weapon is insufficient to the task.

Of course, a weapons capacity is not indicative of how a fight ends but being effective on roast beef means that a knife can inflict serious wounds om a human being when it hits assuming that the technique is sound. Most serious SD practitioners(ex. Michael Janich, to name one) have some sort of test to determine how effective a particular weapon can be. Humans are after all, just walking pieces of meat.

To say that simulates don't hit back is just missing the point entirely. They are not supposed to hit back, Of course ballistic gelatin does not hit back but are ballistics tests are effective experiments for finding out what specific bullet designs and load profiles can do when compared to other bullets. Meat cutting tests are experiments to provide data on how a specific blade geometry and profile will perform.

Fighting skill or capacity is not the point or the issue here. The users skill or absence of it is also not the issue. The point(pun intended) is only about how well suited a particular blade profile and geometry is for cutting free hanging pieces of meat of which a human i made up of. If it cuts a piece of roast deeply you can be sure it can cut a human deeply given the users ability to deliver his strikes. If a particular knife cuts less effectively, it will need more strength and skill to do damage. Chopsticks have been mentioned, yes they can kill but good luck finding a person who can do that with more than just your stir fry.
 
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sns3guppy said:
Not one of mine, you can't.



I think you might have missed the point. Knives don't perform. The users do.

What you have in mind with the knife, and your ability to do it, determines what the knife can do...not the knife.

If you know what you're doing, a Commander is a deadly implement. If you don't, it's a glorified letter opener.

Slashing away at a roast beef won't tell you a lot.

If you know what you're doing, you can replace that knife with chopsticks, and you won't have lost any ground. If you don't know what you're doing, you can replace that knife with a sword, and you won't have gained any ground, either.

It's not the tool; it's the user.
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I do know how to use a knife, very well actually. I striked the roast because it is better than striking air, it gives realistic substance to the striking pattern as does the tee-shirt on top. I used an angle 1 strike with both knives and yes the super comm did decimate the meat but in the end the persian style edge on the schimitar cut much cleaner and deeper and I do understand "fog of war" and the sympathetic nervous system activation and so on .......i've read Dave Grossmans books aswell.
 
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