Best combative blade

[sns3guppy]

Who is "Dave Grossman?"

Are you aware that to "decimate" means to kill every tenth man? It may not mean what you think it means.

Do as you will. You'll be well prepared when the big roast beef attack someday comes.

 

[singularity35]

Who is "Dave Grossman?"

Are you aware that to "decimate" means to kill every tenth man? It may not mean what you think it means.

Do as you will. You'll be well prepared when the big roast beef attack someday comes.

If you look closely at the top of this forum. "Emerson Knives "THE #1 HARD USE KNIVES IN THE WORLD™", Emerson Knives is known throughout the industry for uncompromising combat cutlery." is written there. You come in with 31 posts and tell us what we do is not simulation. So how should we test the capacity of our knives? on live subjects who hit back and apply pressure? pray do tell!

All martial arts using bladed weapons practice their strikes. Do you mean to say that Japanese Kendo practitioners are preparing for an attack by rolled tatami mats? Practicing a cut is the only way that you can get realistic feedback so that you may prepare adequately for something that you hope will never come.

If you can suggest a better way to test the capacity of a knife, please do so. If you can't.....

 

[Picksmith]

Have you seen the upgraded version of the schimitar, the Talwar? San Mai III laminate blade, Tri-ad lock instead of the liner lock, G10 handle scales on a titanium frame and that plastic pommel is stainless steel. It has a great feel.

 

[Haze]

I think some people are missing the difference between a demonstration of a knives capabilities and a combat drill using full resistance.

I don't know about you but my training partner just wasn't up for doing a cutting drill, even with
a 10 second head start. You guys may heve better luck persuading the folks you train with.

 

[sns3guppy]

Do you mean to say that Japanese Kendo practitioners are preparing for an attack by rolled tatami mats?

Why, did I say that? Put words in your own mouth, not mine.

Kendoka learn to strike and defend by hitting with a shinai.

In Iaido, we do perform a cutting test, which is not a test of the blade at all, but a test of the practitioner. The sword is not judged by the cleaness or angle of the cut, but rather the practitioner's skill and technique is reflected in the cut. Whether tatami or bamboo is before the practitioner is irrelevant; the cut is the same, and it is not the sword which determines the success of the cut.

Miyamoto Musashi was an ancient practitioner who became one of the most famed swordsmen who ever lived. His writings and thoughts are still taught today, in Book of Five Rings. Musashi became so adept at killing with his sword that he determined he would no longer use a metal sword, as it no longer presented a challenge to him. He became known for his use of a bokken, or wooden sword, instead. You may safely assume that a wooden sword would do considerably less damage to your roast beef than a live blade; never the less, Musashi continued to prove that the blade wasn't the determining factor, but rather, the user.

You come in with 31 posts and tell us what we do is not simulation.

I would be happy to tell you with one post, or a thousand, that you'll learn nothing from slashing away at kitchen reject meat. You really believe that this knife or that will be the determining factor in a fight? Hardly. Emerson knives were never intended for shaving, and were never intended to slice through bone like a laser. They are meant to be tough knives that hold up to abuse and use, and in my experience, they certainly do. I've taken them into some of the worst hell-holes on the planet, and I continue to visit those locations on a regular and consistent basis. I've never had one of Emerson's knives let me down, which is why I use them. I also use other knives, but I'm confident in the Emersons I own.

What I don't do is slice up bits of kitchen meat wrapped in tee shirts. It's a ridiculous idea. If it makes you happy, however, then have at it. Kick some boards in the back yard and break them too, if it gives you confidence. Whatever floats your boat.

When it is time to take the knife you choose into combat, be aware that you'll get bloody, it will be painful and slippery, and the result won't be a function of which knife cut the deepest into your tee shirt-wrapped dinner. It will be the one you most effectively wield in the space of the very few seconds that the encounter lasts. Your knife which cut so effortlessly through polyester and beef will encounter bone, wrist watches, boots, ribs, and vertebrae. It will deflect, it will slip in your hand. It may chip. It will lodge between ribs and stick fast. The last thing on your mind will be your cut-up dinner. Never the less, if it makes you happy today, if it gives you that extra spring in your step, then by all means, slice up that pot roast to your heart's content. Just don't forget to put it back in the refrigerator before your wife finds out.

If you can suggest a better way to test the capacity of a knife, please do so. If you can't.....

When you cut your roast beef, you've not tested the "capacity" of the knife any more than you've tested the effectiveness of a firearm by shooting a block of gelatin or a goat. You've seen one cut in one place that means very little. One might say one is testing the capacity of a pen to write a novel by scribbling on a piece of paper, but it just isn't so. Don't blame the pen, don't blame the firearm, and don't blame the knife. A poor carpenter blames his tools; the cutting you achieve with your knife is a function of the maintenance you put into the knife, and your technique in using it. Cutting roast beef with your knife has about as much bearing on "combativeness" or "capacity" as do torture tests on firearms. These tell you nothing, but if they help you sleep better at night, then enjoy the entertainment.

The test of the "capacity" of the knife is found in the mind of the user. "Capacity" is a nonsensical word with respect to the knife; a better word is "utility," and this is very much a function of the user. A firearm is useless without a marksman to fire it, and a knife is useless without a hand to guide it. A .22LR chambering is considerably more deadly when it is used accurately than a 7.62 round that is not. Firing both into meat or gelatin won't tell you that, and neither will putting rounds on paper. Actual application will make it crystal clear, however, in a meaningful way. This you can't do with your firearm or your knife, and so you train, train, and train. You will learn of your success the first day you are called upon to employ that knife, and I would that you never need to do so.

I can tell you a better way, but it means learning to win without fighting, and it means learning that when you use that weapon, you've just lost. Until you understand that thoroughly, you won't understand the foolishness of beating up dead beef wrapped in summer clothes, and nobody can tell you a better way. You'll be content to believe what you believe, and you'll probably go on hacking away at your dinner until it's either ruined or you're pleased with yourself for having finally killed it. Do as seems you fit, and best of luck in your battle against roast beef. Lord knows they're a growing threat in this country, today.

 

[Larry Turko]

So although your CS scimitar our performed your Commander it's still a "crappy little CS Scimitar" !? First of all the Scimitar isn't "little" . I've got 2 Scimitars as well as the Commander and the blades are all 4" long.
Secondly ,your own experiment revealed the Scimitar isn't "crappy" at all. You probably paid at least twice as much [as I did] for your Commander as you did for your Scimitar. So I guess in your world the Commander, which performed poorly, is still a knife to be respected ,while the Scimitar, which performed well, is still a knife to be disdained.
Something expensive is good,something affordable is crap, regardless of the evidence to the contrary.

 

[singularity35]

Why, did I say that? Put words in your own mouth, not mine.

Kendoka learn to strike and defend by hitting with a shinai.

In Iaido, we do perform a cutting test, which is not a test of the blade at all, but a test of the practitioner. The sword is not judged by the cleaness or angle of the cut, but rather the practitioner's skill and technique is reflected in the cut. Whether tatami or bamboo is before the practitioner is irrelevant; the cut is the same, and it is not the sword which determines the success of the cut.

Miyamoto Musashi was an ancient practitioner who became one of the most famed swordsmen who ever lived. His writings and thoughts are still taught today, in Book of Five Rings. Musashi became so adept at killing with his sword that he determined he would no longer use a metal sword, as it no longer presented a challenge to him. He became known for his use of a bokken, or wooden sword, instead. You may safely assume that a wooden sword would do considerably less damage to your roast beef than a live blade; never the less, Musashi continued to prove that the blade wasn't the determining factor, but rather, the user.



I would be happy to tell you with one post, or a thousand, that you'll learn nothing from slashing away at kitchen reject meat. You really believe that this knife or that will be the determining factor in a fight? Hardly. Emerson knives were never intended for shaving, and were never intended to slice through bone like a laser. They are meant to be tough knives that hold up to abuse and use, and in my experience, they certainly do. I've taken them into some of the worst hell-holes on the planet, and I continue to visit those locations on a regular and consistent basis. I've never had one of Emerson's knives let me down, which is why I use them. I also use other knives, but I'm confident in the Emersons I own.

What I don't do is slice up bits of kitchen meat wrapped in tee shirts. It's a ridiculous idea. If it makes you happy, however, then have at it. Kick some boards in the back yard and break them too, if it gives you confidence. Whatever floats your boat.

When it is time to take the knife you choose into combat, be aware that you'll get bloody, it will be painful and slippery, and the result won't be a function of which knife cut the deepest into your tee shirt-wrapped dinner. It will be the one you most effectively wield in the space of the very few seconds that the encounter lasts. Your knife which cut so effortlessly through polyester and beef will encounter bone, wrist watches, boots, ribs, and vertebrae. It will deflect, it will slip in your hand. It may chip. It will lodge between ribs and stick fast. The last thing on your mind will be your cut-up dinner. Never the less, if it makes you happy today, if it gives you that extra spring in your step, then by all means, slice up that pot roast to your heart's content. Just don't forget to put it back in the refrigerator before your wife finds out.



When you cut your roast beef, you've not tested the "capacity" of the knife any more than you've tested the effectiveness of a firearm by shooting a block of gelatin or a goat. You've seen one cut in one place that means very little. One might say one is testing the capacity of a pen to write a novel by scribbling on a piece of paper, but it just isn't so. Don't blame the pen, don't blame the firearm, and don't blame the knife. A poor carpenter blames his tools; the cutting you achieve with your knife is a function of the maintenance you put into the knife, and your technique in using it. Cutting roast beef with your knife has about as much bearing on "combativeness" or "capacity" as do torture tests on firearms. These tell you nothing, but if they help you sleep better at night, then enjoy the entertainment.

The test of the "capacity" of the knife is found in the mind of the user. "Capacity" is a nonsensical word with respect to the knife; a better word is "utility," and this is very much a function of the user. A firearm is useless without a marksman to fire it, and a knife is useless without a hand to guide it. A .22LR chambering is considerably more deadly when it is used accurately than a 7.62 round that is not. Firing both into meat or gelatin won't tell you that, and neither will putting rounds on paper. Actual application will make it crystal clear, however, in a meaningful way. This you can't do with your firearm or your knife, and so you train, train, and train. You will learn of your success the first day you are called upon to employ that knife, and I would that you never need to do so.

I can tell you a better way, but it means learning to win without fighting, and it means learning that when you use that weapon, you've just lost. Until you understand that thoroughly, you won't understand the foolishness of beating up dead beef wrapped in summer clothes, and nobody can tell you a better way. You'll be content to believe what you believe, and you'll probably go on hacking away at your dinner until it's either ruined or you're pleased with yourself for having finally killed it. Do as seems you fit, and best of luck in your battle against roast beef. Lord knows they're a growing threat in this country, today.

Are you stupid or something? did I say that the capacity of a weapon will determine the outcome of a fight? What I am saying is if you can strike effectively with a chopstick then your strike will be more effective with a sharp knife. I typed slow so you will understand. welcome to my ignore list.

This thread is not about technique or winning a fight it is about how effective a knife is in cutting meat. whether you agree with that or not, that is what the thread is about.

 

[sns3guppy]

Are you stupid or something?

I am not. Thanks for asking.

When one has nothing intelligent to say, one resorts to insults, as you have done. I believe that heralds the end of any worthwhile discussion to be had, then.

I typed slow so you will understand.

That would be "I typed slowly...". It's an adverb, you see. Again with the insults; as before, where you've nothing intelligent to say, this is what you have left.

Enjoy chopping your dinner.

This thread is not about technique or winning a fight it is about how effective a knife is in cutting meat. whether you agree with that or not, that is what the thread is about.
Reply With Quote

That is interesting, given that the question posted in by the original poster is:

What is the best blade style Emerson makes for combative purposes?

Your comprehension, therefore, lacks a bit. The thread is about combat with a knife, as stated in the original poster's thesis statement. Perhaps you simply missed that. It's a common mistake.

 

[cp2u]

Gentlemen...Gentlemen....

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...


Back to the subject:
If you can get our hands on one, the Emerson Persian is THE perfect little assassin's tool and is as suitable for defense as offense.
The Persian's Yin to the Karambit's Yang, where the claw shape of the Karambit is best for piercing and tearing, the "scimitar" shape of the Persian also pierces with it's needle point but the inherent slicing action of the blade, even when simply thrusting directly forward, is unmatched.
I love my Commander, but my Persian is my favorite and the last knife I would ever give up.

As far as SD goes...have you considered the Emerson dagger? The double edged blade can make it (potentially) doubly effective for SD.

 

[sns3guppy]

That's one many of us would like to find. No doubt if Mr. Emerson put a run out on the market again, they'd sell quickly.

My personal favorite in the Emersons is the Commander. I know the CQC-7 is popular, and I have several, but the commander and mini-commander are my favorite.

I just purchased another mini-commander. I've been quite pleased with the CQC-15, as well, though I'm thinking of sending mine to Tom Krein for his regrind and a reprofile. He recently did a Commander of mine, and I'm looking forward to actually seeing it in a day or so when I get home.

If one is really serious about carrying a blade for fighting, then a folder is really a stop-gap measure. A fixed blade is the way to go. For compactness and expedience, howeever, and concealability and utility, the pocket knife works.

I think one of the best all around pattern knives that Emerson produces, so far as "combat" goes, may be the CQC-8.

 

[SIFU1A]

no doubt a fixed blade would be better, if i knew trouble was coming and i was limited to a knife a large bowie type fixed blade is what i would want, my mad dog SEAL ATAK2 comes to mind, i wouldnt want to pack the 'dog around all the time though, the folders a lot easier to deal with day to day, for me anyway, and while a folder isnt the optimal form of cutlery for that kinda 'biz it will do the job, as long as its a decent design/make/lock/etc.

 

[roughneckrob]

Gentlemen...Gentlemen....

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...


Back to the subject:
If you can get our hands on one, the Emerson Persian is THE perfect little assassin's tool and is as suitable for defense as offense.
The Persian's Yin to the Karambit's Yang, where the claw shape of the Karambit is best for piercing and tearing, the "scimitar" shape of the Persian also pierces with it's needle point but the inherent slicing action of the blade, even when simply thrusting directly forward, is unmatched.
I love my Commander, but my Persian is my favorite and the last knife I would ever give up.

As far as SD goes...have you considered the Emerson dagger? The double edged blade can make it (potentially) doubly effective for SD.

Thank you....Guys listen, I didn't mean for this to turn into an argument. I just wanted alittle input into what everybody else's opinion on what shape of blade they thought would be the best self-defense blade. I love Emerson knives I do think they are the finest combat knives in the world and I shall continue to carry one forever...hell I want to be buried with one in my casket one day. I do have training partners for live force on force scenerios, I do train alone and from time to time I will continue to practice slashing and piercing with the roast beef as it tells me visually where I am in my training and provides substance too the cut...trust me when I say a live knife cutting meat feels alot different than a training blade sliding across your partners arm. So listen were not here looking for a fight, we are here to help each other with questions we have related to Emerson knives that really nobody else on earth can answer. Please don't get me wrong that commander is still me #1 blade, it just feels right in my hand. Thank you all for you input I greatly appreciate it and welcome more if you have more to offer. I've considered the dagger, I am by law allowed to own one but in Canada it's illegal to carry a double edged tactical blade

 

[roughneckrob]

So although your CS scimitar our performed your Commander it's still a "crappy little CS Scimitar" !? First of all the Scimitar isn't "little" . I've got 2 Scimitars as well as the Commander and the blades are all 4" long.
Secondly ,your own experiment revealed the Scimitar isn't "crappy" at all. You probably paid at least twice as much [as I did] for your Commander as you did for your Scimitar. So I guess in your world the Commander, which performed poorly, is still a knife to be respected ,while the Scimitar, which performed well, is still a knife to be disdained.
Something expensive is good,something affordable is crap, regardless of the evidence to the contrary.

True....I just feel the handle quality of the schimitar to be very low quality. That fully serrated 4" VG10 blade is outstanding.

 

[Picksmith]

Looks like my recommendation got buried in the shouting match... upgraded Schimitar = Talwar.

Laminate steel, strong rocker lock, Titanium frame/bolsters, G10 handle scales, wave opening, and a stainless steel pommel.

 

[Haze]

True....I just feel the handle quality of the schimitar to be very low quality. That fully serrated 4" VG10 blade is outstanding.

Looks like my recommendation got buried in the shouting match... upgraded Schimitar = Talwar.

Laminate steel, strong rocker lock, Titanium frame/bolsters, G10 handle scales, wave opening, and a stainless steel pommel.

Cold steel does not use VG-10 steel for the core on it's laminate blades, they use VG-1. That is not the same steel.

Laminate steel is supposed to help blend properties of metals to produse a blade that should perform better than either steel used on it's own, in one way or another. Cold steel seems to have used two (frankly) sub-par steels and some how magically made them into some super steel.......interesting.

 

[Picksmith]

^Just trying to make a relevant suggestion to the OP based on his good experience with a budget blade of very similar dimesions.

 

[Haze]

^Just trying to make a relevant suggestion to the OP based on his good experience with a budget blade of very similar dimesions.

No worries my good man, I was just helping clear some fog.

The old scimitar and the talwar are good looking knives, I would be temped by them in an other life perhaps. :thumbup:

 

[GrinderMcgee]

420 and VG-1 are sub par? Have you seen on of these Japanese blades from CS? Incredible F&F.

I would recommend a good look at the Espada series in AUS8 as well.

 

[roughneckrob]

Looks like my recommendation got buried in the shouting match... upgraded Schimitar = Talwar.

Laminate steel, strong rocker lock, Titanium frame/bolsters, G10 handle scales, wave opening, and a stainless steel pommel.

I really like this knife, but it is awful expensive. I could get a custom Emerson for a few hundred more. I see Mr.Thompson ripped off Ernest's Wave feature. Thompson may be a :jerkit: but he is smart. I do like this knife tho, do they make a fully serrated version? The Espada series is nice aswell, but I like a blade that can be taken apart with my leatherman in any situation, the little tiny allen wrenchs that are needed for these knives is another beef I have with my Schimitar, they were constantly comming loose. The pivot screw seems to hold firm tho.

 

[Picksmith]

^I hadn't price checked since they discontinued the design... it used to be a $220 knife, but even with the recent hike it's still within' $60 of what a super commander costs. That's if you splurge on a dealer price tag without shopping around. They never made a serrated Talwar.

The Schimitar is a plastic handled budget shadow of that knife. Did I mention the filework all down the back of the rocker lock? The Japanese knives are on a totally different level of build quality. The screws in are the same size torque bit all the other CS folders started using for the pocket clip and frame. The pivot is a torque too, just larger. A minor annoyance, like constantly having to replace the little jeweler's driver bits in a leatherman.