BEST EDGE, Carbon vs. Stainless

SALTY

SALTY

Joined
Mar 19, 2000
Messages
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Stainless has its place. I like stainless steel, but for a good edge, one that you are willing to maintain and care for, isn't carbon steel the way to go?
 
So far in my experience , your entirely correct. I have many blades of both type steels , but the high carbon outcuts every type of stainless
 
Carbon yep seems to take and keep a better edge, as mentioned you just need to be wary of the pit falls, pun intended, of not keeping the knife clean and dry after use.

I have a problem with people not understanding that even Stainless will corrode, have to break the word up into
Stain - Less not StainNEVER.

G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...

G2 LeatherWorks
 
Carbon steels most likely as far as performance,ease of sharpening etc.However;Take into consideration such variables such as edge geometry,length of cutting edge,steel,heat treatment,blade finish etc. I think it's difficult to make blanket statements about performing quality of steels without taking a hard look at what other aspects effect performance.But hell,what do I know about knives?
biggrin.gif
: Chow,Ralph
 
Coffee vs Beer,
S&W vs Colt,
plain vs serrated,
what is to be preferred?
wink.gif


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D.T. UTZINGER
 
I guess I should explain the context of my thought. Unless you are salt water diving, breaking down tuna (salty-acidic blood and all that) on a fishing boat, etcetera, ecetera I was thinking that my uses of a knive lend themselves more to carbon steel.

Ralph, I meant, and should have said, "all other things being equal."

Event though my pocket knives (including clipped folders) are stainless,(M2 AFCK excepted) I quickly rinse with tap water and wipe off after each use involving, food. At night I give a quick wipe with Mineral Oil, (thanks BFers for that suggestion).

My fixed blades are generally carbon, (CRK, Marbles), and I try to keep them oiled when not in use and rinsed off and wiped when in use. They have held up fine. I have an A1 with coated blade and Kydex sheath for the salty environs outings, but since I got it I have been needed in those conditions.

The point being, if the "only" advantage to stainess is the idea that it is less maintainance intensive and that Carbon Steel is better for everything else we do with knives, do the knife makers all think that we are so lazy and performance unaware that all they seem to offer in one form of stainless after another, in folders at least?

Thanks for the replies.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 09-24-2000).]
 
Most of my purchases are carbon or tool steel. While my observations are that of what is commonly available carbon usually does produce a better edge than stainless it seems to be more of an issue of either harder, finer grained steel vs not, or softer carbon steel that is very to sharpen vs 'gummy' stainless that is harder to sharpen. There are some very good stainless steels available but for a given steel it seems that better properties, corrosion resistance aside, can be had with less chromium. something that the composition of tool steels suggests.
 
High Carbon, of course. Especially the over 2% you can get in CPM steels. With vanadium contents as high as 15%, and the very hard vanadium carbides making the edge better than possible in the past.

Of course, you can get high chrome content in these as well, which makes them stainless also. Thus, the best of both worlds.

You don't have to believe me; check out Wayne Goddard's edge holding tests: http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/edge.htm

Walt

[This message has been edited by Walt Welch (edited 09-24-2000).]
 
Well, I would have said carbon, no question, in the past, but recently used a F1 in VG-10 to skin a bear. Will post a review of this experience. It held up as well as a Carbon V blade!
 
Jeff, I don't have an AMS2K yet, but I do have an A-1 and find it to be a great knife with good steel. VG-10 may be about tops in "regular" stainless, (I call BG-42 "Gourmet Stainless), but you don't think that many carbon steels give very good edges, (52-100?) some with great use characteristics, (A-2)?

I think for the little bit of care a carobon blade asks for, it gives you a better, longer lasting and more usable edge.

Ooops, got more lime juice on my Marbles, excuse me while I rinse and oil it BEFORE I sip my drink.
 
Ed stated that the F1 held it's edge as well or better than the CS. In the 7 inch knife test awhile back the CS had better edge holding and didn't suffer chipping like the A1 did, but I think that Cliff has stated that he found that the VG10 had better edge holding. I'll need to double check but I seem to recall that in some recent tests the smaller Falkniven (speling ?) bent rather easily, I think it was around 3/16in thick, while the 3/16in CS SRK is known as a classic sharpened prybar.

 
Have not seen a huge difference in maintaining an edge on my Carbon or Stainless knives, but none of them are equal to each other in every other way. My carbon blades tend to be very different from my stainless ones, which makes a direct comparison a little difficult. Since no one else mentioned it, if I remember right from the Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (which many here seem to feel is THE book on sharpening) they said their tests on knives that were very similar in all other ways showed stainless to hold a sharper edge longer. I'll keep my carbon and my stainless, both have their place.
 
How does D-2 fit into the edgeholding picture?

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The thorn stands to defend the Rose, yet it is peaceful and does not seek conflict
 
Properly heat treated, D2 is some awesome stuff. But, I think there is something unique about the scary edge that properly heat treated W2 gets.

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Danbo, soul brother of Rambo
 
After trying to find some more info .... Cliff mentioned that he broke the tips on a couple of the F1 Fallknivens and that it shouldn't be considered a heavier duty knife. As mentioned previously this is in light of the F1 and the CS Master Hunter and SRK all having about 3/16in thick blades, and the SRK is considered a benchmark heavy duty knife, at least for the price. The hard VG-10 blades on the Fallknivens seem similar to the older Buck knives which also had nice, seemingly harder stainless that also took a very good edge, but which also seemed to result in a lot of broken tips.
 
This is a very cloudy issue with todays high-carbon stainless steels like 440C, ATS-34, 154CM, CPM440V, and S90V(CPM420V). Stainless steels are generally high alloy steels, and in the presence of a lot of carbon, the alloys make carbides that are much harder than the iron carbides in simple carbon steels, thus longer lasting edges.

Certainly, a well heat-treated ATS-34 blade is likely to hold an edge at least as well as a 1075 blade, I would think. Maybe as well as a 1095 blade. Less alloy can mean finer grain size and a finer edge, though there seems to be exceptions to that even outside of the CPM steels. The larger grain size of a high alloy steel can make it cut better on hard materials like wood where a really fine edge has a tendency to skate rather than bite.

Larger grain size, as is the tendency in high-alloy steels, does seem to equate to less strength, but among the premium cutlery steels, carefully heat treated, strength is more a factor of cross-sectional area than it is of steel composition in my opinion. The thinner the tip, the greater its tendency to break or bend.

My favorite steel is still a low alloy tool steel like O-1, 1084, or 52100, differentially heat treated. That's how you get maximum blade performance. S90V is my favorite steel for smaller knives and folders where the extra strength and toughness of a differentially heat treated blade are not required. It hold an edge long time, don't stain much. For a knife that is gonna' be in wet conditions without much maintenance, a well cooked ATS-34 blade is nothing to sneer at either.
 
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