Best edge geometry for 440A

fast14riot

fast14riot

Joined
Oct 27, 2010
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Now before you guys start ranting and raving about the blade steel being junk, this is a Buck 315 yachtsman, a proven good knife. Yes, 440C would be a fantastic choice, or even 420HC, but it is what it is. I just picked this knife up at the fleamarket for $10 and it looks to have never been sharpened. It is a thick, stout sheepsfoot blade designed to be used like a chisel, placed on a rope then hammered (with a soft mallet) through the rope. Slicing ability is not paramount, but edge durability is.

So what angle edge do you guys think would hold up best?


-Xander
 
Thinner is always better, thicker edge angles simply mean your edge is starting at a duller point.

Go as thin as the steel can handle for the task. Start at 20 per side and reduce angle until the edge starts to fail.
 
fast14riot said:
Now before you guys start ranting and raving about the blade steel being junk, this is a Buck 315 yachtsman, a proven good knife. Yes, 440C would be a fantastic choice, or even 420HC, but it is what it is. I just picked this knife up at the fleamarket for $10 and it looks to have never been sharpened. It is a thick, stout sheepsfoot blade designed to be used like a chisel, placed on a rope then hammered (with a soft mallet) through the rope. Slicing ability is not paramount, but edge durability is.

So what angle edge do you guys think would hold up best?

-Xander
Click to expand...

Whaaaaat? You don't want to hear the normal off topic responses like "just throw it in the trash and buy a Sebbie", or "I had a knife with that steel and wound up with a $400 Strider" or "I was gifted a knife with that steel by a dying relative and wound up giving it to a homeless guy out of disgust"? You are no fun. No fun at all. :D

On a more serious note, I have a buddy of mine that is a part time sailor with a couple of his own small boats. He loves that knife enough to have a couple of them. They have been proven workers for him for about 30 years now. I sharpened them for years for him on my Lansky and we used the 25 degree slot (who knows what it actually is) and he liked that the best for poly rope and that white, silky looking man made fiber rope he uses. No need to hammer anything; with a fresh edge (which I must say it held really well) he could cut 1" rope with little problem. It pulled through 3/4" rope of all types with one yank.

He loves that pattern so much that he quit carrying his Buck 110 and carries that instead when he can.

Robert
 
Yes, that model is highly sought after by collectors and the 440A is a good performer. Back then Buck used 18-19* edge angle but I'm not sure what Camillus used as that model was never made by Buck. DM
 
I convexed the edges on my old Buck 307 stockman (a.k.a., Camillus-made in 440A, as I assume your 315 Yachtsman was), up through 2000 grit with wet/dry paper. 440A works great this way. And I mean, GREAT. :thumbup:
 
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midnight flyer said:
Whaaaaat? You don't want to hear the normal off topic responses like "just throw it in the trash and buy a Sebbie", or "I had a knife with that steel and wound up with a $400 Strider" or "I was gifted a knife with that steel by a dying relative and wound up giving it to a homeless guy out of disgust"? You are no fun. No fun at all. :D

On a more serious note, I have a buddy of mine that is a part time sailor with a couple of his own small boats. He loves that knife enough to have a couple of them. They have been proven workers for him for about 30 years now. I sharpened them for years for him on my Lansky and we used the 25 degree slot (who knows what it actually is) and he liked that the best for poly rope and that white, silky looking man made fiber rope he uses. No need to hammer anything; with a fresh edge (which I must say it held really well) he could cut 1" rope with little problem. It pulled through 3/4" rope of all types with one yank.

He loves that pattern so much that he quit carrying his Buck 110 and carries that instead when he can.

Robert
Click to expand...

Yes it is a very good knife! I have had many folding riggers knives over the years, but this is my first 315. I sail semi-professionally and have done rigging work off and on over the last 15 years. I carried a Myerchin light knife for a long time and finally committed it to Davey Jones' locker during a busy mark rounding. The only times I worry about pounding it through line is when I am working with large diameter 3 strand (1.5" +) and also when whipping or serving.

Thanx for the reference to the Lansky angle guide, that's easy enough to figure out from there, even with all the variables with that system! Although, what stone did you finish it with? I like a more polished edge, but sometimes with the modern super ropes a more toothy edge is nice.


-Xander
 
fast14riot said:
Now before you guys start ranting and raving about the blade steel being junk, this is a Buck 315 yachtsman, a proven good knife. Yes, 440C would be a fantastic choice, or even 420HC, but it is what it is. I just picked this knife up at the fleamarket for $10 and it looks to have never been sharpened. It is a thick, stout sheepsfoot blade designed to be used like a chisel, placed on a rope then hammered (with a soft mallet) through the rope. Slicing ability is not paramount, but edge durability is.

So what angle edge do you guys think would hold up best?


-Xander
Click to expand...

Xander,

I just had to add, I'm ENVIOUS of the deal you found on this one. As others have mentioned, the old Camillus-made Bucks in 440A are nice knives and proven workers. I love mine. These knives are the ones that made me re-calibrate my previous view on 440A, in fact. There's not a lot of abrasion-resistance in this steel. BUT, that means it sharpens up to a razor very easily. With the right geometry, edges hold up very well.
 
David - thanx for the heads up on a convexed edge with this steel, I may try it out.

Yeah, the guy selling it along with a handfull of other cheapies didn't know much about it. He told me it was $10 because it had the "rope awl" on it. The rest of the knives were 5 or 6 dollars. I also got a case TL-29 from him for $6, I gave him a 20 and told him to keep the change, I was still getting a bargain! Made both of our's day!


-Xander
 
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fast14riot said:
David - thanx for the heads up on a convexed edge with this steel, I may try it out.


-Xander
Click to expand...

Per your earlier reply to Robert, about sometimes preferring a somewhat toothy edge, I'd think anything in 400-800 grit paper would work well also, for the sandpaper method (convexed). I've been playing around a little bit with using 800 grit, and like what I'm seeing there. I'll likely try out 400/600 too. I like the 2000 grit finish, because it takes so little metal removal to maintain it, using a strop with green compound, Simichrome or 1 micron diamond paste, or just a few passes on the 1000/2000 grit again, if the strops don't quite bring it back. Leaves almost no burrs at 2000 grit, which is a plus over the coarser grits. Very, very easy maintenance, especially on this steel.
 
fast14riot said:
Yes it is a very good knife! I have had many folding riggers knives over the years, but this is my first 315. I sail semi-professionally and have done rigging work off and on over the last 15 years. I carried a Myerchin light knife for a long time and finally committed it to Davey Jones' locker during a busy mark rounding. The only times I worry about pounding it through line is when I am working with large diameter 3 strand (1.5" +) and also when whipping or serving.

Thanx for the reference to the Lansky angle guide, that's easy enough to figure out from there, even with all the variables with that system! Although, what stone did you finish it with? I like a more polished edge, but sometimes with the modern super ropes a more toothy edge is nice.

-Xander
Click to expand...

Well, you know with the Lansky the wider the blade the more shallow the edge angle. That was why I phrased it the way I did.

So... ss far as finishing the blade to his preference, I stopped at 600g (blue) stone. That worked the best and held the edge the longest. We did go a bit toothier at 400g with emery cloth, and while it sawed through big rope really well, it didn't hold the edge. He is happy at 600g. I find a lot of stainless steels in that class work out well around that grit for me as well for my daily use.

Robert

Robert
 
Robert, yeah I know about the angle changes on the Lansky. Thanx for the feedback on the grit, too.

So far seems that 600/800 is about right. Personally I use 1500 grit to finish mine off normally, but will try the lower grits and work up if needed.

Oh, and for your viewing pleasure...

2012-03-31101610.jpg


2012-03-31101650.jpg



-Xander
 
Way to go, Xander! What a great knife!

Unless someone holds one of those in their hand, it is impossible to tell someone how sturdy that knife is built. After all the spike is made to pry open knots. I had one of those for a while, but didn't ever use the spike so I sold it. What a dummy.

Robert
 
I usually just make the edge more steep with each sharpening session, to see how far I can take it until it chips and/or rolls. When it does, I know more or less where the limit is for set blade. I always take it to the max for my intended use.
 
My best 440A knife is a shrade old timer with a thin and wide hollow ground blade, and the included angle is probably around 25 degrees. I've had 440a in thicker blades, including a blackjack AWAC, which had a thick edge and was one of the poorest performing 440A US made knives I've used.
 
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