- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 10,002
Have a look at Cold Steel's offerings.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
Best everyday carry for about 60-90 bucks?
- Thread starter bryce
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2002
- Messages
- 1,525
Both the CPM440V and VG10 are great steels, however, for the purpose of the Military as a field/survival knife, the choice of 440V was the better choice, IMO.
The 440V can hold an edge a long time between sharpenings, however don't let it get too dull. It is a tough steel and if you let it get too dull, getting an edge back on it could be a real chore without some diamond stones. I've heard that some people have experienced some brittleness on the edge, but I've never had any problems with either one of my Millies. Also, this steel is very resistant to rust and corrosion.
VG10 can take a razor sharp edge, and is also highly resistant to rust and corrosion. To top it off, this steel is much easier to sharpen, as compared to the 440V, and also holds a decent edge. I'm not sure, though, if it will hold an edge as long or longer than the 440V.
As I mentioned before, the choice by Spyderco to use the CPM440V for the Military was an excellent choice, IMO. Although a tougher steel, it can hold that edge a long time. Here are some links on reviews of the Military;
Military goes to South America
Fred Perrin review
Knifecenter review
Bladeforums review
Hope this helps.
The 440V can hold an edge a long time between sharpenings, however don't let it get too dull. It is a tough steel and if you let it get too dull, getting an edge back on it could be a real chore without some diamond stones. I've heard that some people have experienced some brittleness on the edge, but I've never had any problems with either one of my Millies. Also, this steel is very resistant to rust and corrosion.
VG10 can take a razor sharp edge, and is also highly resistant to rust and corrosion. To top it off, this steel is much easier to sharpen, as compared to the 440V, and also holds a decent edge. I'm not sure, though, if it will hold an edge as long or longer than the 440V.
As I mentioned before, the choice by Spyderco to use the CPM440V for the Military was an excellent choice, IMO. Although a tougher steel, it can hold that edge a long time. Here are some links on reviews of the Military;
Military goes to South America
Fred Perrin review
Knifecenter review
Bladeforums review
Hope this helps.
- Joined
- May 6, 1999
- Messages
- 321
The CPM440V (S60V) as done by Spyderco is a great choice. It tends to hold an edge better than }{ VG-10, but keep it touched up regularly. If you get it really dull, it's a bear to resharpen. I've carried my Millie for about a year now, cutting cardboard boxes, wood kindling, plastic containers, etc, and a little stropping occasionally keeps a fine working edge.
VG-10 can take a very keen edge and has great corrosion resistance, it is about as good as you can get before the powdered metallurgical steels (S30V, S60V, etc) were developed. Both VG-10 and S60V will do a great job provided optimum heat treatment, grind, edge, etc. are applied to the materials.
And if the knife is intended for tough jobs and some abuse, avoid FRN handles and stick with G10 as you find in the Military.
VG-10 can take a very keen edge and has great corrosion resistance, it is about as good as you can get before the powdered metallurgical steels (S30V, S60V, etc) were developed. Both VG-10 and S60V will do a great job provided optimum heat treatment, grind, edge, etc. are applied to the materials.
And if the knife is intended for tough jobs and some abuse, avoid FRN handles and stick with G10 as you find in the Military.
No need to avoid FRN. Santcruz was answered on this subject by Glesser in the Sypderco forum. FRN handles have and will take a lot of abuse.
If you want something different, try the David Boye FRN lockback called the companion. Has a dendritic 440-C blade with a slim spear-point blade. It's very light, friendly, cuts like a demon and can handle anything a knife is meant to do. You can get it with an oval-cut out or large thumb depression etched with a variety of figures such as an eagle wing, sunrise, etc.
If you want something different, try the David Boye FRN lockback called the companion. Has a dendritic 440-C blade with a slim spear-point blade. It's very light, friendly, cuts like a demon and can handle anything a knife is meant to do. You can get it with an oval-cut out or large thumb depression etched with a variety of figures such as an eagle wing, sunrise, etc.
- Joined
- May 6, 1999
- Messages
- 321
brownshoe,
Receiving an answer is far from having serious questions satisfactorily answered or concerns resolved.
There are basic inherent problems with the chemistry of Zytel and similar nylons and with their interaction with moisture.
I'll readily admit that a number of those replying are correct when they specify that that as long as the knife is used for the purposes for which it is intended and not abused, the owner has little to worry about.
But I expect more than that from an EDC. If you find youself in an accident or at the scene of one or any other emergency situation (terrorist, wild animal, natural disaster, etc.) what knife will you be carrying? Your EDC, of course. So it needs to perform, even if it damages the knife. Cutting webbing, cutting your way into or our of a car, cutting cable, dealing with a camping emergency, such as having no other tool to cut tent stakes or generate kindling, etc. Is this when you want to carry a knife that fails??
So that's why FRN knives are unacceptable to me. If you don't demand that your EDC performs under emergency situations, that's your choice. Each of us has to make that decision for his or her self.
Receiving an answer is far from having serious questions satisfactorily answered or concerns resolved.
There are basic inherent problems with the chemistry of Zytel and similar nylons and with their interaction with moisture.
I'll readily admit that a number of those replying are correct when they specify that that as long as the knife is used for the purposes for which it is intended and not abused, the owner has little to worry about.
But I expect more than that from an EDC. If you find youself in an accident or at the scene of one or any other emergency situation (terrorist, wild animal, natural disaster, etc.) what knife will you be carrying? Your EDC, of course. So it needs to perform, even if it damages the knife. Cutting webbing, cutting your way into or our of a car, cutting cable, dealing with a camping emergency, such as having no other tool to cut tent stakes or generate kindling, etc. Is this when you want to carry a knife that fails??
So that's why FRN knives are unacceptable to me. If you don't demand that your EDC performs under emergency situations, that's your choice. Each of us has to make that decision for his or her self.
Hang it up santacruz, Glesser gave an elequent response to your insitence on putting down FRN handles. Others have also done so in the two threads you participated in over in the Spyderco forum. You can do a host of things with FRN that is not "knife-like." You can chop, twist, hammer FRN handles.
Admit it you've been proven wrong on FRN handles both with anectdotal evidence and by one of the leading designers and manufacturers, Sal Glesser of Spyderco. FRN knives can chop, they can be used in severe situations, and they can be used in "camping emergencies" much more severe than a missing tent stake or need for some tinder. Cold Steel used to pound their FRN handled knives through car doors and 50 gallon drums.
Stop putting out your "superstition" as fact. FRN works.
Admit it you've been proven wrong on FRN handles both with anectdotal evidence and by one of the leading designers and manufacturers, Sal Glesser of Spyderco. FRN knives can chop, they can be used in severe situations, and they can be used in "camping emergencies" much more severe than a missing tent stake or need for some tinder. Cold Steel used to pound their FRN handled knives through car doors and 50 gallon drums.
Stop putting out your "superstition" as fact. FRN works.
Let the man speak for himself, from Sal Glesser on this subject:
Gee, I'm somewhat surprized to see that the "controversy game" seems to have become quite prevalent on the forums lately. I dunno, maybe Mars is in Uranus this month?
I guess out "expert" has many years working with Dupont's Zytel and he is saying that their Zytel is no good for knife handles?
I am not a Zytel expert, but I am considered somewhat of a knife expert. My company has put more than one million FRN folding knives in the field over the past 12 years. Our problems with the material have been;
1. Larger clips breaking when we made them integral. After 6 changes to the mold over a 9 year period to come up with the right combination, we finally went to a steel clip.
2. When the temperature drops below 40 degrees below 0 F., they become brittle.
3. In a great deal of direct flame, then have burned.
We have driven trucks over them. They have been retrieved from swamps (after 2 years). They have been retrieved from the stomaches of fish. We have been quite surprized at the ability of FRN to withstand and survive.
I will say that most of our FRN (90%) have not been the Dupont product. This is not to say that the Dupont product is inferior. I believe that our expert needs more information on modern FRN.
More than 20 years ago, we were marketing a spliceable nylon line (rope to the non sailors). The "experts" said that nylon line left in the sun for too long would deteriorate and become unsafe. I made a swing for my kids out of two lengths of nylon line. The line is still fine after 20 years. ???????
We break approximately one out of 200 pieces with computerized breaking equipment. Our Endura model generally breaks at about 80 -90 inch lbs (per inch of blade). On a 4 inch knife, that is in excess of 300 inch lbs.....consistently.
I'm not skirting the sujbject, I was being tactful. I believe that our "expert" believes what he believes based on his very limited experience with some FRN (probably not Spyderco knives) some years ago. I will stand behind our FRN knives to be everything that we say they are. If necessary, we send him one of our handles and I defy him to break it with his own two hands.
sal
Gee, I'm somewhat surprized to see that the "controversy game" seems to have become quite prevalent on the forums lately. I dunno, maybe Mars is in Uranus this month?
I guess out "expert" has many years working with Dupont's Zytel and he is saying that their Zytel is no good for knife handles?
I am not a Zytel expert, but I am considered somewhat of a knife expert. My company has put more than one million FRN folding knives in the field over the past 12 years. Our problems with the material have been;
1. Larger clips breaking when we made them integral. After 6 changes to the mold over a 9 year period to come up with the right combination, we finally went to a steel clip.
2. When the temperature drops below 40 degrees below 0 F., they become brittle.
3. In a great deal of direct flame, then have burned.
We have driven trucks over them. They have been retrieved from swamps (after 2 years). They have been retrieved from the stomaches of fish. We have been quite surprized at the ability of FRN to withstand and survive.
I will say that most of our FRN (90%) have not been the Dupont product. This is not to say that the Dupont product is inferior. I believe that our expert needs more information on modern FRN.
More than 20 years ago, we were marketing a spliceable nylon line (rope to the non sailors). The "experts" said that nylon line left in the sun for too long would deteriorate and become unsafe. I made a swing for my kids out of two lengths of nylon line. The line is still fine after 20 years. ???????
We break approximately one out of 200 pieces with computerized breaking equipment. Our Endura model generally breaks at about 80 -90 inch lbs (per inch of blade). On a 4 inch knife, that is in excess of 300 inch lbs.....consistently.
I'm not skirting the sujbject, I was being tactful. I believe that our "expert" believes what he believes based on his very limited experience with some FRN (probably not Spyderco knives) some years ago. I will stand behind our FRN knives to be everything that we say they are. If necessary, we send him one of our handles and I defy him to break it with his own two hands.
sal
- Joined
- May 6, 1999
- Messages
- 321
Sorry, brownshoe, but nothing was "proven." If folks are interested, they can look up the threads themselves, read them in context and make their own decisions.
You are the one who appears to have a closed mind and continues to live in fantasyland, but that is your decision and choice and you certainly have the right to do so. Others may feel differently. By the way, I love how you refuted my comments about emergency situations. Wait, a minute, I know your refutations must be there somewhere...aren't they??
You are the one who appears to have a closed mind and continues to live in fantasyland, but that is your decision and choice and you certainly have the right to do so. Others may feel differently. By the way, I love how you refuted my comments about emergency situations. Wait, a minute, I know your refutations must be there somewhere...aren't they??
After all these suggestions you know whay I decided to go for tHe spyderco chinook I held the military the blade tip just seems like it will break. My knives go to hell and back again I am taking back my kershaw black out it felt good but it doesnt hold a egde not to mention there is no guard / choil and it seems to small for me i decided to go for durability over weight thanks to those who helped
I decided that g10 was for me too why because not of durability but grip zytel seems to slippery and i would buy FRN because if it did break I trust that the company i got it from would replace it
Bryce
I decided that g10 was for me too why because not of durability but grip zytel seems to slippery and i would buy FRN because if it did break I trust that the company i got it from would replace it
Bryce
- Joined
- May 11, 2002
- Messages
- 886
If your wanting an edc that meets all those drastic survival scenarios, I'm afraid I'd have to rule out ALL folders here, get a Busse and be done with it.
For edc, more mundane things like comfort, size, lock safety, ease of use, blade steel, etc etc take priority over the ability to withstand 3000 degree fire tornados and ninja death attacks and such.
For edc, more mundane things like comfort, size, lock safety, ease of use, blade steel, etc etc take priority over the ability to withstand 3000 degree fire tornados and ninja death attacks and such.