Best Factory Folder

Ah, the money question. Most knife guys get this question all the time from friends. "How could you spend a $100 on a knife?" Well, you spent the $$$ because there are certain features on that knife that you wanted or needed. You spent that $$$ because you could be certain that the knife would not fail you. You spent the money for pride in ownership. There are a lot of reasons why you would spend a $100 on a knife, and they are all legitimate. The same applies to the Sebenza.

I spent $250 on my large (like new) Seb. (off the exchange forums). However, I do feel that the price of $345 is fair for the knife considering the materials, attention to detail, and perfect execution of the knife. The truth is, handmade folders that rival the Sebenza are quite a bit more expensive than the Seb. Just look at Tom Mayo's TNT's. They run from $500-$600 from dealers.
 
I hate to follow the flock, however the sebenza is king. With the additional vanadium carbides in the blade (bg-42), it is extremely aggressive. I know of few knives that are as hard on the grey stones on the Sharpmaker. Sometimes it is hard to distinguish whether the stone is sharpening the blade or vise versa. My second pick would be a custom Crawford/Kasper Titanium with a Devin Thomas firestorm damascus blade. It is truly an aggressive edge.
 
Don't you have to worry about chipping with a blade that hard? I've heard some BG42 blades, even on the Seb, have chipped before. I don't know if I would like a blade this hard, unless it was D2 or M2, which are also tough .
 
Well Komondor, it is not actually the blade as a whole that is so hard. It is the abundant vanadium carbides set in the matrix that have the extremely hard Rockwell hardness. The blade itself is actually hardened a few points less than BG-42's full potential 62-64 if memory serves. This is something that Reeve has already looked into. A perfect balance between toughness and edge retention.
 
I have never handled a TNT before but I assume it's a great knife. It is probably worth the $500-$600 bucks Tom makes on each. And I'm sure it rivals the Sebenza like few other knives can. BUT....

I went out and bought the last large Sebenza 1stopknifeshop had at the time. I bought it because sooooo many people suggested it. Just look at this post, the Sebenza is the knife everyone tells you to get. Do you know why????? Because it is a high quality piece that you will have for the rest of your life. Hell, pass it down to your child and let him or her have it for the rest of their lives.

Some of you guys are saying "why not just shell out the extra hundred or two and get a TNT or other custom." Well I don't know about the other Sebbi owners, but It took me a couple of months to save up for my Large Benza and I refuse to save even more just to say that I have a custom. Why would I want to pay more for a knife that is just as good? because it's a custom?????

Chris Reeve makes sure that every knife that comes out of his shop is perfect, just like the custom makers. Instead of one guy making each knife he has 11 or 12 people that have just as much pride over his prodect as he does (I have talked to his employees on the phone, they have alot of pride in his knives.)

Ohh, and one more point. The question in front of us is what is the best FACTORY folder. I don't care if it's the best value, or it has the best handle. This person wants to know what factory knife is the overall best. Well I can answer that. It's the Sebenza.
 
The best factory folder is the Starmate, not the Sebenza or LCC. I've had an LCC, and find the Starmate more useful in size and shape. Plus edge holding is far better. I don't believe the Sebenza qualifies as a "FACTORY" knife, because it is designed, overseen, owned etc., by the guy who created the knife. He has just been smart enough to build his products in a way that promotes higher volume, and the passing of knowledge to his staff effectively. Each knife is made the same way CR himself would make them, and he supervises to ensure this. IN MY OPINION, THIS IS NOT A FACTORY KNIFE. If the same thing was done at ten times the production rate, with twice the staff at half the price, I'd consider CRK to be "factory" made. Until that time, they are semi-custom.

Jet
 
Toolin,

I would imagine some TNT owners would be flamed for you claiming the Sebenza is as good as Mayo's knife, just like the Seb owners are with me for claiming the SERE 2000 is as good as a Reeve's knife. But you are making a similar point that I am; and that is, where is the line drawn between how good a knife is, and at what price? I realize the fit and finish on a Seb is better than on a SERE 2000, but the SERE 2000 is also famous in this area, as well. And that the blade material is slightly better. (The SERE 2000 has excellent VG-10, however.) But what can the Seb do that the SERE 2000 cannot? Probably nothing. Fit and finish aside, is the Seb better looking than the SERE 2000? Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the SERE 2000 looks a lot better than the standard Seb. Aesthetics is another reason why I like the knife. The wood insert Sebenzas though are probably the best looking production knives I have ever seen. They rock.

Will the SERE 2000 last as long as a Seb? Perhaps. You can easily get after market washers for the SERE 2000 to make them as good as the more expensive knife.
 
Just because a knife is a custom, DOES NOT make it better! We are looking at the best customs rather than the industry as a whole. I have seen custom blades that cost more than a Seb that were far worse for fit and finish, but better in terms of visual appeal. Hence the decorated/wood/Damascus Sebenza's.

Simple truth is a Sebenza gives you a quality that few can better at a price that is less than said custom. I would say after seeing the Talonite DDR/RS collaberation that this $600 knife is close, but not quite as well made as my large Sebi! It was not as smooth or in my opinion quite as well finished. It was 95% as well made and it has to be said I liked the Anodized Ti and shape more than the plain grey Ti of the Seb. But it was not better made and cost nearly $300 more! Is this value? Is the knife overpriced? I was guilty of seeing the Sebi as overpriced:o , now I see that custom or factory/shop is irrelevant! There is a certain snobbery taking place here. Yes I own a custom knife! A REAL custom knife, one made to my exact specs and from the materials used to the leather sheath design, to the Rc hardness I got the exact knife I wanted. THAT is what a custom knife is to me! Getting the EXACT knife you want, no ifs or buts. The Sebi gives us a top line quality knife as good as if not better than 95% of customs at a fair price and without a 3-10 year waiting list! Unless you want a wood... :p

So is the Sebi overpriced? I don't think so. You need to look at $500-$600 at a DDR or RS to get a knife that really makes you think this is better... Well they look nicer and are well made. I would argue that the Sebenza is a bargain in fact and... well I want them to be cheaper so I can afford more! I would like to see dealers selling them for less though. That I think IS wrong. I also think the extra $250 for the wood option is rather steep to say the least. You are paying a high premium for that and then they are in the ballpark of some high grade customs. I paid about $705 for a small wood with Spiral Damascus steel and a BG-42 blade. Now that would have bought a TNT XL knife in Talonite or CPM 420V with spare change! I still would have rather the small sebi than even such a great knife however. The Sebenza just floats my boat and I don't worry anymore about factory vs custom. I know what I have. its in my hand and its good, very good.:D
 
komondor,
Nobody is doing any flaming here. If you look, there are a few others who are choosing the S2K (and other knives) as their favorites and that is fine. All we are pointing out is that you said it was not as good as the Sebenza yourself (You said it was only 80% of the knife that the Sebenza is), but later say that the S2K is better.

So, you want to know what you get with the Seb. that you don't get with the S2K, well, here it is:
1. Warranty- Don't know what the warranty on the S2K is, it is not published on their website, but CRK has one of the best in the business and I can't imagine Al-Mar beating it.
2. Not having to use the Warranty- You can bet money that if you order the Seb., you are not going to have problems with it. IIRC, many S2K's were sent back for bad liner locks (although that problem has since been corrected)
3. Lock- Integral lock vs. Liner Lock. Well, this has been discussed at length elsewhere. Use the search function.
4. Blade Options- There are many options out there. Flat ground, hollow ground, tanto, add a swedge, polished, stonewashed, damascus.
5. Handle Options-classic, plain, decorated, unique decoration, wood.
5. Re-conditioning- CRK will recondition the knife at a marginal cost.
6. You don't have to buy aftermarket parts parts (like washers and larger thumb studs) to make the knife better. Everything is done right the first time with no compromises to keep cost down.
7. Customer Service- My personal experience with them was great (Sending me a new allen wrench). They were friendly and got it out very quickly. You will also find lots of satisfied customers if you use the search function. I have never heard anything bad about CRK's customer service.
8. Fit and Finish- Consistantly perfect knives come out of the CRK shop. The little things are done. Very tight tolerances, nothing is sharp that isn't supposed to be, no blemishes, etc.
9. You can take it apart and won't void the warranty.
10. Better blade steel (marginally) but with a better, more consistant heat treat.
11. Easy to clean. Taking it apart makes this easy.
12. Other things like blade shape, handle materials, clip position, handle ergonomics, etc. all vary by the needs/wants of the user, so there is no need to go over them.
13. Simple Design- KISS principle.

I am sure that there are many other things I am not thinking about at this moment, but I am sure that others will chime in if I am leaving anything else out.
 
The Sebenza is not a factory knife. The Sebenza is not a custom knife. It has its own unique category which is one of the reasons why it has such a following. Having said that. Nothing and I repeat nothing coming from the factory market compares to the Sebenza. As far as value is concerned, sell a factory knife after you have used it HARD. You'll probably get 20-40 percent of what you paid for it. Sell a Sebby that's been used HARD and your still likely to get 65-80 percent of what you paid for it new. There's the value of a Sebby.
 
Thanks for the responses. Somewhat surpised at the level of agreement considering how many factory folders are out there. I would have to agree that the Sebenza is a "custom" - considering the price. (Of course, it just might be in a class of one - it's that good.) Any other thoughts?
 
Personally, I like the Calypso Jr lightweight alot better than a Delica. More positive grip, better steel, better blade shape (IMO). I think the Calypso Jr is one of the best Spydies ever produced.
 
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