Best Filet Knife? Should I go custom? Why?

J

Jameson

Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
294
This is really being posted for the boys over @ www.stripersonline.com which IMO is the equivalent to this site when it comes to surfcasting. Anyway...

There was talk over there of Ceramic knives in general and I stated that it probably wasn't used in filets because if it is flexed too much it will shatter. Also, IMO a good filet knife has a little bit of flex. Someone also stated that when dropped it shatters as well. So basically it has more going against it than for it. As a filet. Currently I have been using Dexter Russel stuff (production) and Cold Steel filets. I like the cold steels best, coated blade and nice handles.

What about a custom Ceramic Filet knife? I dont see the need but if you got the dough... Could we get some makers or even some pic up here of custom filets? Even if they are not ceramic. For the right price I would even go custom as I do use the knife quite a bit in season. Thanks for the time.

JC
 
I am not sure if you are looking for a folder, but Spyderco Military with plain edge makes for a very good filet knife...
 
JC,I am making one right now so no pics yet.I don't really like making them,and it is hard justifing the extra cost,but some will pay it.My customer has money and no qualms about paying for a custom.I would think ceramic would be to brittle for a good fillet knife.I am using 440C for this one.I don't know many makers that make these regular.Dave:)
 
Nicest fillet knife I've found for the money (so far) came from Melvin Dunn out of Kansas. Maybe the very nicest I've seen are from Phil Wilson, but he gets a 2x or higher multiple more $$ than Melvin also.

Melvin has a new web site:

www.dunnknives.com

Melvin charges $120/$130/$150 for small/medium/large and for that you get a well heat treated CPM440V blade and a dymondwood handle (laminated, resin-impregnated stabilized wood.) IMHO some dymondwood is ugly, some of it is not bad, and it is quite durable if not run through the dishwasher. Comes with a very nice leather sheath.

I sent Melvin a big $30 chunk of ironwood for my knife. I'd do the same again.

That is damned good pricing for custom work, with a good heat treat on 440V. Melvin does them in batches, but I didn't have to wait but a few months.

You could expect Melvin's fillet knife to handily outperform anything you've used to date unless you had one made of Talonite or Stellite, or already bought a 440V or 420V fillet from Phil Wilson (for more than twice the price).

CPM 440V is a fairly good choice for a fillet knife. It's fairly corrosion resistant (approaches the 420 stuff, about the same as 440A/440C, but not close to the imperviousness of Talonite or Ceramic), and a very good edge holder. So it is suitable for saltwater fish given a modicum of care.

Key to using 440V is finding a good heat treater who knows the routine and can keep it out of brittle range. Melvin's been doing 440V for a good number of years.

Money where my mouth is: I own the medium sized one. I'll eventually own all three sizes.

You'd have to spend a 2x multiple or better to do any better and it would be a very slight improvement.
 
If you want a blade that is highly optimized for the task look at the "bent" blade design by Fishmonger Knives. They are made of 440A stainless which is not the hardest alloy, but is highly corrosion resistant. The primary advantage is the industrial quality materials and the unique design. Here's a link to the website:

http://members.aol.com/fishknives/knives.html
 
Guys let me get this straight. I am speaking of my own personal uses and not of anyone from the stripersonline forum.

I have already listed the types of knives I have been using for 8+ years, the cold steel for 4 or 5. The thing gets left on the deck, unwashed, for days. This is while it is covered with various fish guts and saltwater. The dexter russels rust up after maybe a few months but even then just a bit. The edges (the blade is coated) on the cold steels get swiped before every cutting session, and sometimes during, and rust up after sometimes only a night. However the Cold steels take a hair popping sharp edge even on a medium norton, and I can get it there in a few swipes each way.

I have seen a few custom filets from mates up on Long Island. They all told me the name of the maker (I forgot) and they didnt know about websites or anything for him. They were nice blades with a type of cord wrap handle. The blades were obviously HIGH carbon because they were totally rusted but the edges were fabulous. Using another mates stone I could get the sucker to hair popping sharp in aobut 4-6 strokes.

With talonite and cpm440v I would be woorried it would be hard to get an edge on their quick. Cant be spending 20 mins grinding with perfect and adjustment on a rocking boat for every sharpening session. I do steel often but sharpening is a necessity for our long range tuna/shark/billfish trips out 80+ mis to the the Hudson Canyons off LI's South Shore, and Atlantis Canyons when we feel like really making a haul LOL

Get back to me guys. Is the cpm440v and talonite more brittle than other steels? Remember filets need to have a bit of flex to facilitate in eash of fileting fish. I cant expalin it but the less flexible filets are just harder to remove skin with, and toughest to get ALL the meat off of certain types of fish. Obviously Tuna and SHark are easier when it comes to finesse. But Striped Bass, fluke, weakfish, sea-bass, tautog, and many other edible inshore species are much harder. Sorry for the longwinded post here guys.

JC

P.S. Does anyone have any pics of these filets?
 
Hi there, I have been selling Stellite 6K fillet knives made by George Young of Kokomo, IN for several years and have not seen their equal in performance. I bought the first one from George in about 1994 or '95 and gave it to my father to try. He fishes hard from Alaska to Mexico and found it to be the best knife he ever used. Stellite sharpens easily with the marvelous diamond hones we have available now. Just my two cents worth, Brian
 
Any info on prices or a website for this man?

Also, would these sharpen on stones? Reason being, in my experiences with the 800 grit diafold I used to bring on board they rust up. ANY of the tiny little metal shavings left wiithin 10 feet it seems, of the sharpener and it rusts ridiculously. I could use a steel, but sharpening it is gonna come up every 8 hours or so if we are offshore. You gotta cut up like 10 flats of butterfish for the charter so... And we do use a serrated blade sometimes, but with a good filet it only takes one swipe through to cut one. Plus a few swipes and I'm sharp as opposed to a badly dulled serr knife.

You can try to keep out the metal shavings by rinsing the hone with freshwater, but the "washdown" hose on the deck is only saltwater, and the freshwater hose is all the way by the sink so it isn't feasible when your doing this stuff in a rush. And there is the charter with a 120# Yellowfin Tuna on behind you ready to be leadered in. Your throwing handfuls of spearing into the darkness. One handful of spearing, two handfuls of butterfish chunks, wait one minute... repeat. This is over and over and over again for hours so you go through lots of cutting fish, and do lots of swiping the blade. No time alloted for freshwater rinse and care of the stone. In fact we rinse the stone in SW or the bucket of defrosting spearing. That is the best cleaning the stone is gonna see, and you should see the shape this diafold I have is :eek:

JC
 
If you want to spend the money, it would be worth trying at least one blade out of Stellite, and George Young is maybe one of the more cost effective makers and does a lot of Stellite.

Stellite is easier to sharpen than most any blade steel, in my opinion, but I mostly use diamond stones. Stellite absolutely will not rust, it's not steel, it's a largely Cobalt and Chrome alloy. It is also soft, at between Rockwell C 42-48. It is very erosion and wear resistant, and if ground to an appropriate thickness for the kind of work you are doing, it will be very durable. It is not brittle at all, but super super thin edges may rip out. Stellite is very responsive to steeling, and just cuts and cuts on meat.

Talk to George and see what he suggests.

This thread contains George's address and phone number:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176264&highlight=george+young

It always helps to specify what your requirements are. For me, 440V works great, as I'm able and willing to sharpen it, and know it can be a bit towards the brittle, so I'd not use it in a way that would be likely to chip the blade out.

But I'm not doing the kind of things with it offshore like you are, cutting up chum or big hunks of bait fish, ripping up big fish, dealing with Striped Bass, fluke, weakfish, sea-bass, and all that. You really want a hard usin' knife.

My bias: makes me cringe to see rusty knives. That's why I'd go with Stellite....that and it is not brittle, easy to sharpen and steel, totally corrosion resistant, and holds a very good edge and is very abrasion resistant.

Try one. You may go back to the CarbonV cheapies and be totally content.
 
Jameson :

Cant be spending 20 mins grinding with perfect and adjustment on a rocking boat for every sharpening session.
Click to expand...

I have used both S90V (420V) and 10V from Phil Wilson at high hardness and they would sharpen quite easily with a few passes on a diamond rod for an aggressive edge or a ceramic for a smoother one. This is a shot of one of Phil Wilsons S90V fillet blades :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/phil_wilson_fillet.jpg

Diamond hones will rust readily yes, I have seen that before. However I was able to clean the rust off without much of a problem, but I didn't get it overly rusted. Have you tried ceramic hones? In any case, I have also sharpened Phil's knives on SiC and AO waterstones and they will do nicely as well. I would recommend a fresh sharpening in the morning (or evening) and then the use of a smooth steel until it no longer is practical. Phil has a lot of experience with his knives so drop him an email and discuss what you want with him directly.

-Cliff
 
I got a 9 inch Punta Chivato with a multi piece handle from Phil Wilson before the start of the season. It was just right for big striped bass. The blade is 154 CM at RC 60. The handle is
desert ironwood with a contrasting stabilized wood center section and blue micarta spacers for contrast. it came with a heavy leather sheath and diamond sharpener.

I have no idea how his (or anyone elses) CPM blades hold up, but this 154 CM blade out cut any other fillet knife I have ever used.... That should be a good indication of the edge holding of the CPM blades... if hardened properly.

I "lightly touched up" the edge of this blade after 30 large Stripers... and then did the same after maybe 40 more. I filleted (and skined) well over 120 large stripers this season with hardly any sharpening. (Not to mention quite a few blue fish...)

I had thought I wanted a Talonite or Stelite fillet knife, and was talked out of it. (May still try one some day...) The Stellite/Talonite blades I own cut like mad is flesh and most other things, but I am not to sure how they would do on the few bones up by the head that must be cut on a large striped bass. Those bones might tent to roll the edge on a Talonite/Stellite blade. I'd really like to hear how those "non-steels" have held up while cutting bone...

Michael
 
Forgot the picture of my Phil Wilson fillet knife...
 

Attachments

  • filletpw.jpg
    filletpw.jpg
    30.8 KB · Views: 356
Hey C4 you ever think of catch and release. I am not sure of the regs up there but here in NY the limit is one 28" fish per day. Now unless you are commercial I dont see any need in you keeping 100+ striped bass a year. Say each 28" keeper weighs 8# on average. You are eating 800#'s of bass a year. Not healthy even by government standards. There are just too many pcb's in teh flesh. I will eat it once a week maybe, If I deceide to keep one but cmon man.

I surfcast often and catch well over 600 bass a year, some 40# and over. I kept 6 fish this year, and felt guilty for everyone except the one that had a treble in his eye. Conservef our resources my friend. It has been proven especially with the striped bass, that this resource can and will disappear when overfished. Thanks for the tip ont he filet but I still see no reason to drop $250+ on a blade that will get beat to heck. 120 large bass... cmon man. Where are you fishing by the way man? The canal?

JC
 
Eating fish is good for you: Whining about the fish others catch or eat has been known to be unhealthy... (I thought this was about knives...?)

I also do plenty of catch and release.

Not that it is any of your business, but yes, I do eat a lot of striped bass during the season... And yes, I do fish commercially... and duly report my catch. The DMF in Massachusetts is very conservative: Our state has never taken all the tonnage allowed for commercial fishing and has kept the recreational limits below the allowed size/quota. Always!

Are you old enough to remember the "fisherman" on Long Island that used to run a net from a boat offshore to a pick-up truck on the beach? They used to get lots of stripers for the New York market (one reason I moved out of the Tri-State area) and called it fishing. Our commercial catch is limited to rod and reel....

Michael

EDIT:

Jameson,

After rereading your post, I must add this: Do you have any idea what the morality rate for released fish is?

You hook these fish somewhere/anywhere and then fight them in, only to handle them and pull the hook out. Then you release them. All this in the name of fun. Do you really think the fish like this? (Ever hear of lactic acid build up in fish under strain?)


The morality rate on released striped bass is 8 to 12%. Do you really feel that good about all the fish you killed for no reason? Do the math!

I target large fish for sale (34" and over is the limit for commercial fishing in this state). I catch very few "schoolies", so my release rate and morality rate of fish not eaten is very low. You kill fish for fun by doing "catch and release". I kill fish so people can eat...

Stop fishing if you are so green that you feel "guilty for everyone except the one that had a treble in his eye". You said it yourself you do not like to fish to eat: stop torturing those 600 plus fish a year if you are not man enough to look a fish in the eye and say; "Thanks! I respect the life you give me."

PCBs??? Next you'll be telling me that I shouldn't smoke!

Lighten up, "my friend"....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
I dont want to get into a full blown argument here. Lets just get the fact out of the way that I am very well read in this subject, dont let my age fool you. Yes I am aware of the haul-seining that used to go on here on LI. I have read over 5 books on these crews, including J. Cole's "Striper" which stirred many politicians into action to save this fish. Leading to the moratorium on the species itself in the 80's. I do not think that all commercial fisherman are raping the ocean. However, Long-Line Swordfisherman have depleted swordfish stocks to near nothing. Reducing the avearge size Sworfish caught to avg. around 40#. When just 20 years ago the average was well over 220#. This discussion does not belong here.

As to the mortality we C&R guys are doing to the fish. Those studies conducted in many peoples opinions are false. I fish alot of C&R trout reserves and private streams which receive decent angling pressure. I have never seen a washed up or dead trout even after probably 100 releases the fish live on. Different in saltwater as striped bass have predators, albeit not many. Still a danger, also a danger in releasing them from teh jetties and landing them in the same types of rocky places. Still I doubt that 8 or 13 out of every 100 fish I catch will die. I take great care in hook removal and release. I also NEVER fish baits other than live unweighted eels, so ever fish I catch is hooked in the mouth somewhere. I do agree that the rear treble ends up near the gills or in teh eye sometimes, but then usually I will keep the fish if it is legal. It does hurt to throw back a dead short fish, as it does to release one bleeding at the gills but after all I AM OUT THERE TO FISH. No need to get worked up. Thanks for the time.

JC
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top