Best Filet Knife? Should I go custom? Why?

Do you really like .45's?
Knife content: I never need one on fish because I just do not catch any of dem baby NH stocked trout. But if i did, I would go with something Phil Wilson makes. NOW, rant on boys:p :p :p
 
Jameson,

This discussion does not belong here.

I agree! You were asking about custom fillet knives: I gave you my firsthand experience as to edge holding, and a picture, of a fine Phil Wilson CUSTOM fillet knife. After that, all you did was bash my fishing practice before you knew anything about me.


BACK TO KNIVES!!!~!

As far as the price of the knife I got from Mr. Wilson; YES, it was not cheap. I could have gotten a handful of throw away fillet knives for the same price. BUT, I was buying a tool for myself; something I would enjoy using today... and for many years to come.

I spend $350 to $500 a year on disposable gear (line, hooks, artificial baits). I spend $300 to $400 on live bait. I buy gas and oil for the boat. I bought a new Maritime Skiff w/ 135 HP engine, Tee top and $6000 worth of electronics this year...

As long as my Phil Wilson knife doesn't go overboard, it will certainly out last all the other gear I bought this season....

Doesn't seem all that expensive after all...:rolleyes: :p :p

Michael
 
Not bad for a boat guy. Listen if you are in the business then I am sure you know how much it costs to fund 2-3 nighters for giants and such. All on 62' Merit's (The boat I work on) with the finest of gear. I mean it costs $80 or so to fill an 80# or a 130# class reel. Again I am still wondering why you call $20 cold steel filets or dexter russel's throwaways compared to a $150+ custom filet? It seems that with the amount of use my cold steels have seen that it would be a formidable challenger to teh $200 cord-wrapped florida customs I have seen. Or then again the cost of your knife may be what makes it a better tool for you. But I dont see how.

JC
 
Nothing wrong with $20 fillet knives! My term of "throw away" would be more properly termed "don't really care if they fall overboard".

I have used $20 fillet knives all my life (and still keep a few on the boat): They are good if kept sharp. I bought a Custom fillet knife for the same reason people buy custom rods: Because they are better (out cut any $20 knife I've owned by a huge factor), because of a much nicer feeling handle, because it will outlast a stock one and because I could!! Nothing more, nothing less!
 
I'm sorry but I too have owned one, and I was impressed, carried it for two weeks, then traded it for two knives overral worth $450. Now it was flawless in every way, and IMO one of the nicest folding knives I have ever held, but I figure for that money I could get a Randall Model 1 with all the special stuff I want, and sebenza does not justify the cost. It might for most but not for me. If I got my hands on a TNT I may say differently, I also had a Terzuola ATCF sold said knife at a show to a japanese fellow. He bought it after I demonstrated how perfect it was. $525 he paid, but he said it was the finest folding knife he has ever seen, and after cutting like 100 pieces of paper with it he offered me the extra $100 I wanted over what I paid for it. He did not know that of course. IMO for $200+ over most benchmades the cost/performance facotr isnt there, but it does outperform by 25% or more in almost every aspect.

JC

Is this the same person?
 
You damn right it is Mr. Mayo.

See a folding knife that is carried daily and could even.. GHASP... Save my life one day. That is worth a bit more to me than something to cut bait with. And I realized that the sebenza was just simply NOT WORTH the added money over a BM. Now with all this TNT "press" going around maybe there really is something better than the sebenza or ATCF. I cant comment ont that.

I build my own surf-rods and have made a few boat rods. For the cost that most rod-builders want to complete the work, and the fact than I can do it myself stopped me from having someone do it for me. As well as the fact that every shop I went into was trying to push me the stick they thought I needed. "Kid you dont need those guides" "I can handle the spacing guy, dont come into my shop and tell me how to build rods" are the type of replies I got when I was looking for what I wanted. If I had the resources to build my own filet knives I seriously would take a crack at it. Even if I could get some blades ground up from 440c I could put a cord-wrap handle on it and sell it for $100 at least right?

My synopsis is for a hard use filet that going custom is just a way to spend extra money with little gain at all. The stuff that would really retain an edge, would require using tools (DMT or similar diamond stuff probably) to regain that edge that would become damaged in the situations it would be used in. Again my needs differ from most of you. Mayo stop attacking me man, I know you got a little following here but please man lay off.

JC

P.S. Mr. Mayo, you run into Frank Mundus on the Islands at all?
 
Damn!

JC, Tom just asked a valid question!

Stop reacting to peoples posts! Try instead to reply! It will help you get along better.

Please try to learn how to play nice.

When you ask a question... and someone gives an answer, try to respond to that answer and not pick the person apart. (IE: Keep on subject.)

When someone asks you a question, try to answer it without going off on a tangent... (IE: Keep on subject.)

My $.02 worth,
Michael
 
JC,

My synopsis is for a hard use filet that going custom is just a way to spend extra money with little gain at all. The stuff that would really retain an edge, would require using tools (DMT or similar diamond stuff probably) to regain that edge that would become damaged in the situations it would be used in. Again my needs differ from most of you.

Don't you read the replys? I fish, and keep them. The advantage to a custom fillet knife is that you would only have to sharpen it every 5 or 6 years, if you only kept 6 Stripers a year! Think on the time you would save on sharpening!!!!:D :D :eek: :eek:

Michael
 
Let this NEWBIE chicken filet-R try to understand this. Jameson, you ASKED about the best knife to do some heavy-duty filet work. Turns out you are an expert and work on "sport fishing craft" and sometimes need to cut lots of bait [now are you a Master-baiter yet?:eek: ]

C4, I don't know you, but I have been here long enough to KNOW YOU!!!! and you are trying to give some advice here. The original question: The best filet knife for heavy duty ocean work.

I gotta go with spending the money and buying that one knife that will stay on your side in a sheath and give you many years of service. The message that I read is: keep the cold steels and other junk for the junk work, but have the best quality knife money can buy always at the ready when you hit a school of stripers, a mega-Tuna or you are in some nasty crap 40 miles off Montauk and you are trying to filet up a nice catch and really need precision.

C4 is just trying to tell you that he uses the best and it gives him outstanding performance. get back to the original question: the BEST filet knife for your type of work. I have got to believe you cannot think a Cold steel is the BEST............wolf;)
 
I dont't know Michael but I think he fishes hard and appreciates good
equipment. I've been known to catch a fish or two and will be ordering
a Wilson fillet knife today!!

I believe I'll need to have rules for the knife, though. People like to drop my knives overboard, just happens all the time, so they won't
even see my knife. Rule two, the knife will not be allowed out unless a float is attached, even with me!!

For chunking I use a serrated, off set handled DR and it is great. Why
beat up a good knife. I also keep DR's on board for other baiting chores.

Michael, I also outfitted a new boat last year, what a blast. The
electronics are just too cool.

They are still catching their limits on Bass as I type this. Water is
still in the high 40's. Go figure.

Regards,
Win
 
Originally posted by Jameson
It seems that with the amount of use my cold steels have seen that it would be a formidable challenger to teh $200 cord-wrapped florida customs I have seen. Or then again the cost of your knife may be what makes it a better tool for you. But I dont see how.
JC

Jameson, you are really pushing your luck to ask for advice and then get argumentative.

I have not yet seen a cord-wrapped fillet knife for sale. You have apparently, from a Florida maker.

Not sure why I keep typing but here goes...

If you want an inexpensive cord-wrapped carbon steel fillet knife, and you know that already, then ask a custom maker to do one for you, or figure out a way to grind or sandpaper/beltsander down the diameter of the Cold Steel, then cord wrap it and be done. CarbonV is 0170-6, a decent simple carbon steel, and Cold Steel appears to give a good heat treat.

If you want an inexpensive cord-wrapped 440-something "stain resistant" fillet knife, and you know that already, then ask a custom maker to do one for you, or buy a $20 stainless knife and grind down the handle, drill a couple holes in it, and cord wrap it.

You are going to have to shell out a non-linear amount of money for a knife that is appreciably better than what you've tried already. I.e. spend 4x to 6x as much for double the performance.

Phil Wilson does make the finest fillet knives I've seen. I don't own one yet (own a semi-skinner by Phil), but I know how serious Phil is about modern steels and heat treat. Phil's stuff is expensive, finely crafted, great looking, have great handles (have played with a few of Phil's knives, but can tell by looking now also), and they will take a fair amount of hard use. But a beating, like as a boat-knife on a real fishing boat? But not at my hands... too expensive for me to use as a "boat knife". That pic C4 posted is a beauty I'd be proud to own and use on-shore.

My fishing is all recreational, in the marshes and inland waters of Louisiana. That means I'm on-shore cleaning fish. I can therefore take care of the Melvin Dunn in ironwood and 440V.

Only been once off-shore for tuna. Our guide had a big white-handled Dexter Russell, cut up pogey's for chum, watched him quickly gut and be-head a 6' sand shark. I have a Dexter Russell too. It's a good knife for the money ($16-22, can't remember). "High carbon, stain free" is all it says on the blade, I'm guessing 440A, but dunno really. Very ergonomic, lightweight, comfortable white plastic handle. You might be able to grind that handle down some, drill holes, and cord wrap. Would make a secure-grip, reasonable beater/boat knife. If you tore it up or the handle disintegrated, well, it was a $20 experiment.
 
Just my opinion that going for a custom filet is not worth it. Maybe you guys dont like to hear that someone doesn't think a knife is worth it. Bad "press" for makers or whatever? Truth is my petty rantings and opinions probably wont change any ones opinion. C4 I dunno if YOU read the post, but I use the knife for alot more than 6 fish a year. Thanks for the time. And I aksked for your opinions on should I go custom or not. Based upon your input and the e-mails I received from SOL guys it is not worth it.

JC

c4 you say you use diamond stuff in saltwater. How the heck do you keep it clean enough not to rust? I tried but any tiny metal particles rust right up even in salt air. Remember we usually rinse our stones in a bucket of defrosting squid or spearing-chum, in a bath of saltwater. I dunno about most brands but DMT stuff rusts up real quick. Rinsing the diamond stuff after we sharpen just isn't an option, and even when I have tried tiny metal particles left on the face rusted uncontrollably.

JC
 
Maybe I was a bit harsh buddy, but when you wade in with your first post telling us how you are such a big wheeler dealer in semi expensive knives and ALWAYS MAKE A PROFIT on them it seems pretty wierd that you then switched your whole tune over to the $20 knife.
I am 54. I have had knives since I was a small boy. I collected all kinds of knives for many years. There is NOT a factory made knife on this planet that compares to the kind of stuff Phil puts out. Its the best you can buy for that sort of work and at $300 its CHEAP! :)
 
Mr. Mayo,

I understand where you are coming from. Just so happens that I got lucky when I traded away my sebenza money wise. And that Japanese guy at the Nassau Colliseum Outdoor Show would not take no for an answer. Initially I told him no, but he went on and on about this knife and the way it had such tight tolerances and it was butter. This was one obsessed man so I figured shoot, I might as well see how much he would really go for. Yes I looked at his shoes and his watch first, and said $525.

Folders with pocet clips for most people are an EDC for utility uses as well as a defensive option. I would not trust my life to a $20 folder and neither would anyone here if they could help it. IMO spending the money for my own safety and health is a different situation than spending possibly over 1000% more for a custom filet which may only be a few fish better edge-holding wise. Opinions are a dime a dozen, mine are cheaper.

JC
 
A couple of questions?
Did I miss the outdoors show at the colliseum? I thought it would be late January
Why would you want to fillet and cut bait with the same knife?
Kinda like using you 12' plug rod for bottom fisin' from a boat, isn't it?
And why would anyone want a cord wrap knife that is going to be around fish? That would be a nightmare to clean, with all of the nooks and crannies :eek:

If you are going to be the only user of said fillet knife, go custom. You won't regret it.
If it'll be a boat knife get an off the shelf production model. I have the Shrade Steelhead for a couple of years now. It is a decent blade, good bang for the buck.

Tight lines,
Ebbtide
 
Originally posted by Jameson
Opinions are a dime a dozen, mine are cheaper.
JC

Ok... yeaaahhh.... greaaaaat.... right JC. Thanks. Thanks for all of your comments and insights. It has been very ...uh ... revealing.
 
Originally posted by Jameson
Just my opinion that going for a custom filet is not worth it. Maybe you guys dont like to hear that someone doesn't think a knife is worth it. Bad "press" for makers or whatever?

Uh, no, JC, it isn't that I "don't like to hear that someone doesn't think a [custom] knife is worth it", nor is it that we think that is "bad press". I'm quite comfortable that the custom knife industry will thrive and grow without selling a lot of high end fillet knives, much less to you. It's more that I figured you knew what custom knives were about and were asking meaningful questions and looking for some insights. Turns out we mostly wasted our time/breath in this thread with you it would appear.

Originally posted by Jameson
Truth is my petty rantings and opinions probably wont change any ones opinion.

Yeahhhh ... fair assessment.

Originally posted by Jameson
Thanks for the time. And I aksked for your opinions on should I go custom or not. Based upon your input and the e-mails I received from SOL guys it is not worth it.
JC

Nope, it isn't worth it. Oh well. Bye.
 
I emailed Mr. Wilson a link to this thread. Here is a copy of his reply. I found it very interesting. Hope you all enjoy it! (I have edited out the name of the knife manufacture he is working with {but can't wait to see the results!!!}and his phone number.)

Michael

Phil Wilson wrote:

Michael, thanks for showing me this thread.
This gave me some very good insight on how others view the fillet knife market out there. I was surprised that makers are doing fillet knives for
about half of what I charge. A fillet knife like the one you have takes me about 14 hours to make if I am doing some others at the same time. I do my
own heat treating and that adds about an hour to the time. A sheath takes about 2 hours. Materials and grinding belts cost about $30. Figure all in
and I make less than $15/hr. The difference is probably in the finish and heat treating, or maybe I am just slow. As it turns out I get orders for and make about 30 per year which is just right for me. The feed back you have given me is excellent. The commercial guys are the ones who appreciate a
good tool. I made a 9 inch knife for a Commercial fisherman up in Alaska 5 years ago, he uses it every year on thousands of pounds of halibut and
salmon. I have made 20 more for his commercial friends based on his referrals. This is what makes it worthwhile. I think the heat treating is
more important than the steel when it comes to a fillet knife. That's why I recommended 154Cm to you. I doesn't make any sense to me to make a carbon steel fillet knife for salt water although it would cost a little less. I made a lot of fillet knives out of 440V in the past and frankly think that 154 is a better performer all around. 420V (S-90V) does hold a better edge but really adds to time for me to make one and ups the cost of an already pretty expensive fillet knife. A hunting knife is the best application for S-90V. Stellite or Talonite may make a pretty good knife. My concern would be does it have the springy feel necessary for a flexible knife? I grind my
blades very thin and would be worried about edge rippling under hard use. The material cost is also significant. I have been working with the new
S-30V and I think this will be my steel of choice for fillet knives. It has the potential to be better than 154 or even S-90V for this application.
Workability is very good and it looks like I won't have to charge any extra for the steel.
I am working with (EDIT: Name of GREAT knife company) right now on a fillet knife of my design. We are doing a 9 inch and a 7 inch currently. It will be Japanese made with MBS 26 steel. The blade flex, heat treating and feel based on the first prototype are very good. I am hoping for the first production run before this summer. It never is a for sure thing until all the fabrication costs and marketing stuff is final. This should put a very nice fillet knife in the price range a lot of fishermen will be willing to pay. I am very excited about it the whole project and keeping my fingers crossed.

The discussion on "fillet and release" or "catch and release" in an ongoing one. I'm not going to jump into the discussion except to say I kept about 50 very nice king salmon this year and canned, smoked and gave a lot of it away to appreciative friends. I like to use my own knives!!

Thanks again for the feed back and if you get out here sometime we will go catch and fillet some fish.

PHIL



Philip C. Wilson
Audrey A. Wilson

Seamount@bigplanet.com



P.O. Box 846, Mtn Ranch, Ca, 95246
North 38 17.074
West 120 32.819

When the Creator made all things, He first made the fishes in the Big Water

American Indian Legend
 
Even as a NEWBIE, if I ask a question I expect to get different opinions. But selling a sebenza for $525 in Uniondale, NY and fishing the waters of LI as a Paid sport fisherman, and still not UNDERSTANDING that a Filet knife custom made to your specs will last you a lifetime is BIZARRE.

keep 100 cold steels on Board. But if you see no problem with spending 80 bucks to put quality line on a reel, how can you argue about $300 bucks for a knife made for you and you alone. Whatever it is you are looking for can be had. I even understand this and I am a dick-head!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: OOOPs, I mean thick-head;) :p wolf

PS for personal protection, try a gun. And when deer hunting I use the shoot and release method:p
 
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