Best knife for sub-0 work?

Someone explain to me how on earth a hatchet can split... say... a 8 inch wide log better than a 10 1/2" blade of a knife and a baton? I don't see it, i just don't.

An axe, yeah, of course, but then that's a lot more weight. I say, with a large well made knife, a saw..like, idk, a "sawvivor", and a multitool, you're set, AND you're still coming out with less weight than an axe.

Hatchets only make sense for chopping, not splitting.
 
Joshua J. said:
What about mountain climbers who sleep hanging off a cliff?

You need to be wearing the right clothing, and I agree, wet and cold is dead, but it can be done.
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Sure, but the weight of the gear they carry to do so is more than weight than small axe or hatchet plus a saw. The OP'er said he doesn't want to carry that extra weight.

So what do you do if something happens to your special gear? You make a fire. If you can't make a fire, then you are D E A D.
 
FMJ Hunter said:
Someone explain to me how on earth a hatchet can split... say... a 8 inch wide log better than a 10 1/2" blade of a knife and a baton? I don't see it, i just don't.

An axe, yeah, of course, but then that's a lot more weight. I say, with a large well made knife, a saw..like, idk, a "sawvivor", and a multitool, you're set, AND you're still coming out with less weight than an axe.

Hatchets only make sense for chopping, not splitting.
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I've wondered the same thing. I know that my Kabar Potbelly out chops my BSA hatchet by such a wide margin it's ridiculous. I think it takes less effort to baton though a log than it does to split one with a hatchet.

A full size axe is the most efficient way to split, but who wants to carry one all the time?
 
I used a USMC K-BAR at temps of -30 F and colder for 2 months and didn't have any problems.
 
Ankerson said:
I used a USMC K-BAR at temps of -30 F and colder for 2 months and didn't have any problems.
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I don't have a lot of experience outdoors in really cold temps, but I think what you stated says a lot! I'm glad I can count on my Ka-Bar if it ever comes down to it...
 
Just remember that a hatchet can be batoned, too. Personally I'd say it doesn't matter too much as long as it's sturdy and has a steel tha'ts a little lower on the RC scale. I've used nearly all of my outdoor knives in sub-zero temps and never had a problem...maybe because I was just being careful with them? :p
 
FMJ Hunter said:
What, in your experience, is THE best knife for zub-zero shelter and fire making...
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What ever style of knife you prefer, I would look closely at the blade steel, heat treatment, and edge geometry.


In very cold conditions a tough blade is your friend.


Blades that tend to be brittle at normal temps will be more so in the extreme cold.

Like wise, frozen wood can be quite tough on sharpened edges.

A steel like 1095 or 5160 (or better yet A2 or cpm 3V) tempered in the 56-58 Rc range and with fairly thick edge geometry will be your friend when the mercury plummets.





Big Mike
 
Fällkniven A2,

Bark River Bravo III

or one of these


( I only mention the fällkniven because I remember the F1 and A1 where tested for more than a year in the conditions you describe before they went into production )
 
cramsey3006 said:
I've wondered the same thing. I know that my Kabar Potbelly out chops my BSA hatchet by such a wide margin it's ridiculous. I think it takes less effort to baton though a log than it does to split one with a hatchet.

A full size axe is the most efficient way to split, but who wants to carry one all the time?
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I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm really putting some heavy consideration into a Esee Junglas.
 
When I have gone winter backpacking in northern NH and Vt, it does get pretty cold, well below 0 degrees F. We never carry axes, and never anything bigger than a small folding saw and maybe a long, lightweight knife like a leuku or a small machete. They are good not only for building fires but also for cutting snow blocks for building igloos! Building fires in these conditions is a total pain, since the wood is all buried under 6 feet of snow, and often we are above treeline anyway, where cutting wood is almost impossible and would cause environmental damage if we did. We rely on small mountaineering gas stoves to melt the snow/ice for drinking water (if there are no streams nearby). Yes clothes/warm sleeping bags do keep you warm, even it the winter, in a tent! Much warmer than any fire ever could, plus you can move around instead of sitting huddled in front of the fire. We have the means to start a fire if we have to in an emergency, but we rarely bother with it. A much more important tool for staying warm is a shovel, which is used to build snow shelters. Inside a snow cave it will be 40-60 degrees from body heat alone, and it can be lit with a single candle. You are warm even if it is -30F outside. A snow cave is the best emergency warming strategy. The time/effort it takes to find/prepare wood for a fire in deep snow is better spent building a well insulated shelter. I'm sure in more moderate conditions a fire is great to have, and but it really is not essential for staying warm. What is essential is some way of melting snow/ice and and heating water. A stove is much more efficient for this than a fire. Having said this, I do respect folks who want to do it the traditional woodcraft way, using fire alone. If I were doing this, I'd definitely vote for the small ax/folding saw combo, unless I was in an area that only had small brush. Then I'd take a leuku.
 
Fallkniven S1, A1 or A2. All use encapsulated tangs which insulate the hand against the cold. Couple the knife with a good saw. Personally I prefer a bow saw with a 32" or so blade, carry an extra blade. It may look funny tied to your pack but it will far outperform all the folding saws and adds just about no weight over the folding saws. An axe with a length of at least 19" should be along as well. Subzero winter camping requires a lot of extra gear. That is why the Finns, Lapp's and Eskimos used sleds to carry the needed gear. Learn from them and winter working and camping becomes much more enjoyable.
 
The classic KaBars are 7" and they work well in the cold. I'm sure a Becker would work well also as they are the same alloy as the KaBars, though I think the leather handle will resist extreme cold better than the Grivory.
 
+1 on the packable bow saw. +1 on the small (12") machete. +1 on the small (4") rubber handled knife.
Spring tempered steel is where it's at with cold weather gear. Laminated stainless is also a fantastic choice. The bow saw blade and the machete are spring tempered, and most Fallknivens are laminated, rubber handled, spring tempered and stainless to boot.
 
FMJ Hunter said:
What, in your experience, is THE best knife for zub-zero shelter and fire making (other rather heavy activities), preferably 7 inches (not under 5).
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IMO, a saw is more efficient than a large knife at processing wood. my vote is for a folding saw (like a bahco laplander). as for a knife to go with the saw, anything from a mora to a becker bk7 should suit you well.
 
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Leuku vs. camp axe depends a lot on the type of wood nearby. Temperate, wet, low altitude hardwood forest during a big cold snap might warrant an axe more than tundra or high altitude scrub where the axe will just dent the thinner, twisted wood.
 
FMJ Hunter said:
Someone explain to me how on earth a hatchet can split... say... a 8 inch wide log better than a 10 1/2" blade of a knife and a baton? I don't see it, i just don't.

An axe, yeah, of course, but then that's a lot more weight. I say, with a large well made knife, a saw..like, idk, a "sawvivor", and a multitool, you're set, AND you're still coming out with less weight than an axe.

Hatchets only make sense for chopping, not splitting.
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I don't get it.
Where are you gonna get an 8" log ready to be split in the woods? The log fairy? Wouldn't you have had to process the longer fallen or standing wood first? That would be done more efficiently with a saw over a big knife.
Secondly, once the log is processed into a useable length for making firewood, you may choose to split it. In that case, the extra length of a machete if batoning, or the extra width of a hatchet would be far more effective than a large knife.
I cant tell you how much kindling I've made directly from a full round with a hatchet. In fact, until I got older I never knew that people used a knife to split wood with. To me, batoning is a survival skill, used when there is simply no other choice. I hope I never have to do it.
By way of explanation on how to use a hatchet to easly split an 8", 12" or 100" log, you simply take slices off the side. You don't try to split a big piece in half. If it's a reasonable sized piece, and you hit it in the middle and it doesn't go through, then pick it up with the hatchet buried in it and smash it on the ground until it does. Pretty basic stuff.
I just have to add this thought one more thought...if you aren't skilled in the use of a hatchet, I fear for your safety in the woods. I recommend getting one and practicing with it.
 
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Arakiel said:
I don't get it.
Where are you gonna get an 8" log ready to be split in the woods? The log fairy? Wouldn't you have had to process the log first? That would be done more efficently with a saw over a big knife.
Secondly, once the log is processed into a useable length for making firewood, you may choose to split it. In that case, the extra length of a machete if batoning, or the extra width of a hatchet would be far more effective than a large knife.
I cant tell you how much kindling I've made with a hatchet. In fact, until I got older I never knew that people used a knife to split wood with. To me, batoning is a survival skill, used when there is simply no other choice. I hope I never have to do it.
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i agree, a knife should be used to process wood in a survival situation. if i know ahead of time that wood will need to be processed, i will have a saw with me.
 
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Clearly there needs to be a thread aimed at the young enthusiasts that details the difference between "Survival Skills" and "Camp Craft".
The skills used in each may indeed overlap, but they are NOT used in the same scenario.
"Camping" is all about gear preparation, the skilled and proper usage of such and the subsequent enjoyment of the environment.
On the other hand, "Survival" is all about overcoming or avoiding the imminent threat to life with barely the basics at hand, while utilizing all mental and physical resources combined with indomitable willpower.
 
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