Best lightweight thin fix-bladed knife?

Joined
Feb 13, 2004
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282
After trying knives with thick blade (3/8 inch and thicker) for hiking I started leaving them at home. I bought them specifically for hiking and travelling because I thought they would give me confidence that they would not fail, but now I think they are just not practical for this purpose - I try to reduce the carrying weight, so this is their first minus. Their weight also makes them not user-friendly when preparing food. In some countries they are not permitted unless you have a document to confirm they are not considered to be a weapon.
So, while there are a lot of positive reviews of such knives I find their application in real situation is much more limited than, for example, of a kitchen knife.
I decided to look at lightweight fix-bladed knives - folders are great, but when you have to use them a lot, you get tired from washing and drying them all the time.
I like Busse steel, but unfortunately all their knives are just too thick and heavy for my purpose. Is there anything close to Busse in toughness and easiness to sharpeneas, but lighter?
Thanks,
 
I'd say look into Bark River knives, the north star at .170 inchs think in A2 would be a good step.
 
The vaqrious scandinavian knives are a good place to start. The moras a cheap and you can try the style out, or get one of the nicer Helle or Bresletto knives right off the bat. Ragweed Forge has a good selection of scandis online and Ragnar (the owner) is a pleasure to deal with.

http://www.ragweedforge.com/Welcome.html

Pat
 
I just bought a Salish I found it surprinsingly light weight for it's size. I have several other knives about the same size and it is the lightest of the bunch. It does not have any excess metal... very functional design in my opinion.
http://www.simonichknives.com/midtech.htm
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Bought at:
BG CUSTOM KNIVES

Here is a review:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351959

Another model that is made by Simonich Mid-Tech is the 'Urban Raven'. It's even lighter due to thinner steel.
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Dave
 
Mora 2000, Mike Mann IKW Cliff Knife, any of Chudzinski's knives, any Frost or Erikkson Mora (clipper, Swak) etc. There is a custom maker named Joel that makes some great knives in stainless called a PAK (have not used one, but those I respect have).

Those are 1/16"-3/32".

Moving up to 1/8" brings you knives like the Gerber Yari, Grohmann models (flat grinds only please), and a whole bunch of customs.
 
All good suggestions I find in situations like these I try and get out to a knife show or a store it helps to take these recomendations and see if you can get some of the blades into your hands. Sure it will be near impossible to find them all in one place but no one can really tell how a knife fits your hand except for you right

Tha Scandis are good choices so are the Barks in some models if you have large hands you have to choose around small handles. There are also a number of Custom makers that will make a good knife for not too much more then some factories.

Joel is good
doziers
Gene Ingram
Charles may
shoot the list is endless


There is a lot out there good luck in choosing please pop back in and let us know which one.

A
 
Is there anything close to Busse in toughness and easiness to sharpeneas, but lighter?

Strength is very much dependent on thickness so in short no, if you go from 1/4" to 1/16" then it doesn't really matter the steel it will be far weaker and have a much more narrow scope of work. Possibly the best introductory thin knives are the carbon kitchen knives that you find in flea markets for <1$. if you get really lucky you could find a nice whittler, brush cutting and general purpose food/utility knife in the form of a paring, utility and large butcher knife. You can also find these on ebay for basically the cost of shipping. In regards to more modern styled knives, the A. G. Russell Deerhunter pretty much defines a knife optomized for light cutting, the only concern is the size of the handle. The Spyderco Temperance is also a nice choice for a "big" light knife. But I would seriously consider looking at some kitchen knives, in fact even the cheap stainless ones are not likely as bad as you think they are, just buy one, grind it correctly (file/x-coarse stone) and do some work.

-Cliff
 
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Maybe this will help?
From left to right.
Murphy Knives Fisherman's Pal
IJ small fillet knife (IJ-Isaaki Jarvenpaa...sp?)
Frost's of Sweden Swedish Army Knife
IJ 1244
PJ Tomes utility hunter
Helle Jegermester
Murphy Knives "Shark"
Dozier Slim Outdoorsman
Dozier Personal Utility
R.O. Easler small hunter
And the 'axe' on the right
Marbles Woodcraft
 
the A. G. Russell Deerhunter pretty much defines a knife optomized for light cutting, the only concern is the size of the handle.

I agree that the Deerhunter is an excellent performing knife, but it need not be limited to light cutting, in my opinion.

With care, a Deerhunter or similiar knife like a Victorinox paring knife, can be used for moderate work without too many issues. Splitting small wood to kindling, or for use in a small firebox or kelly kettle, cutting through chicken or fish bones, even coping or deburring soft metals and hard plastics are not outside the scope of work I feel comfortable with.

The only reason I don;t reccomend these knives (and I think the D2 Deerhunter is a great knife, especially for the price) is that it does not fit my hand very well. As well, that push botton lock sheath is not one I favour personally.

Strength is very much dependent on thickness so in short no, if you go from 1/4" to 1/16" then it doesn't really matter the steel it will be far weaker and have a much more narrow scope of work

Yes, it will have a more narrow scope of work, but within that narrow scope of work the thin bladed knife is MUCH more effective. I greatly prefer thin bladed knives for virtually all tasks.

As well, you would be suprised how much work a well built knife that is a mere 1/16" thick can perform. I would say the best example is the IKW Cliff knife by Mike Mann. Though the L6 steel in mine is harder than would be used in a big chopping knife, it is more than tough enough to split kindling, cut through heavy line, cardboard, can be used to work around bone without worry of glances, and holds a heck of a good edge.

I know he is not favored here right now, but Dale Chudzinski makes a line of thin bladed cutting tools in carbon and spring steels that cut very well, yet can take a good amount of rough work. His standard construction is usually 3/32" 15n20 Swedish Bandsaw steel, though I also have knives of his in 1084, 1095, and L6.

Outside of prying or cleaving through heavy bones or ring knots, there is really nothing I would not use these knives for in normal use.

For a compact knife that would compliment your Busse, try the Spyderco Drop Point Moran. It is light, compact and cuts well.
 
SOG BG-42 Field Knife is the best light fixed blade IMO. Thickness is .160".
 
For example, here is a review of a thin bladed knife I would not hesitate to trust in a wilderness setting:

Racquette Forge Mooseskinner

The Mooseskinner is a larger version of the Racquette Forge Nessmuk knife. The Mooseskinner was developed based on the input of Jim Aston, who wanted a larger hunting knife capable of processing large game such as Moose, as well as camp chores such as wood work. Since Jim Aston is a vast source of knowledge about outdoors information, especially cutting tools like axes, I was very interested in the project. I had already worked with the standard size Racquette Forge Nessmuk knife and was very happy both with the performance of the knife, and just as importantly the integrity and character of the maker, Dale Chudzinski.

My review of the Racquette Forge Nessmuk, with some background on George "Nessmuk" Sears, who developed this pattern of knife in the 1880&#8217;s see:

http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/racquette/nessmukbydale.html

Dale makes his knives for experienced users. They are thin bladed, high performance cutting machines. He does not overbuild them to add extra durability for use by foolish people. His knives are meant to cut meat, rope, leather and wood. Dale is very straight forward about his opinion of "concrete choppers" and their place in the universe.

Specifications

The Mooseskinner is a large belt knife, with a 5.5" blade and an overall length of 10.5". The blade was hand forged in a hand cranked charcoal forge, and finished by hand, with files and abbrasives. The blade steel is 15n20, a Swedish band saw steel similar to American L6, both of which are known for their toughness. The blade was forged from 3/32" thick steel, which is fairly thin in todays world of thick tactical knives, many of which are twice as thick.

Dale heat treats his knives for maxiumum toughness and ease of sharpening. He uses a triple temper process, and his knives take keen edges and I have never had one chip.

The thin blade of the Mooseskinner allows for greater cutting efficiency than would be possible with a thick steel, as well by reducing weight, it enhances the precise handling characteristics, and makes working with the knife a joy, taking long periods to feel wrist strain compared to thicker knives.

The handle is made from Osage Orange (Bois d&#8217; Arc), chosen for its combination of strength and light weight. The color of the handle earned this Mooseskinner the nickname "Big Orange." The handle is shaped perfectly to allow for many grips to be used, is filling enough to prevent fatigue, and just plain feels great in my hand.

http://img197.exs.cx/img197/8503/dcrav0101bg.jpg

The handle fully encloses the tang, which is a feature I like very much when I have to use a knife that I have been carrying exposed to a &#8211;20 windchill tempatures.

The sheath that houses this knife deserves special mention. It was handcrafted by Dannyboy Leather and matches the character of the knife perfectly. The sheath is made from 9 ounce leather with a durable waxed finish. While there is no fancy tooling or embossing, it is easily my favorite sheath because of its exceptional quality of construction. The stitching is dual row, straight, tight and even, and recessed for improved durability. The sheath rides perfectly on my belt, and allows the blade to be drawn with ease, yet I never fear that it will fall out. As with Dale, the sheath&#8217;s maker Dannyboy, is an exceptional person whom I greatly admire. Out of respect for his privacy, I will not go into his background, but suffice it to say he is well rounded, honorable and intelligent with a wealth of real world experince. He is a good man, and I always like dealing with honorable, trustworthy men like Danny.

Evaluation

I have had this knife for approx. 18 months, and have used it extensively. It has been on my hip on many outdoor adventures, and has served me well. There is neither time nor space to describe all the tasks I have used this fine knife for, but I hope to give you a taste of it.

For comparison purposes, the Mooseskinner is shown here with a Grohmann Flat Ground Survival Knife. The Grohmann is also 10.5" long with a 5.5" blade, but is 3/16" thick Stianless steel with a full tang and rosewood handles. It has been modified by reprofiling the edge and rounding the riccasso area. I also threw away the garbage sheath it came with and had a custom kydex sheath built. I have used this knife ons everal canoe trips, and it works well. It is sharp, sturdy and effective. Given the similiarity in shape between the two knives, I thought the Grohmann would make for an interesting comparison.

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http://img197.exs.cx/img197/7987/grbo0079jk.jpg

http://img197.exs.cx/img197/5103/grbo0061dd.jpg

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Kitchen Work: Cooking with Big Orange

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I have used the Mooseskinner literally hundreds of times in the kitchen, where it performs exceptionally well. Thin, sharp carbon steel is always a recipe for success. While the blade does develop a patina, I wipe it down when I am doen and have never had any problems with rust. It holds an edge well, and when it does dull requires only a light steeling with a ceramic rod to bring it back to hair popping sharpness. The handle is secure, yet not abbrasive. There is no guard to interfe with close work, which also means care must be taken when using the knife. "Respect your tools, use them carefully" is what my father used to tell me. His words have saved me many times over the years. It is amazing how wise your parents seem the older you get.

The guardless design and thin steel has never been an issue for me, it is my preferred configuration. Even using the knife for taskk like cracking coconuts, the knife remains secure and easily handles the task. Skill and finesse are the keys, not strength and brute force.

http://img215.exs.cx/img215/7623/dcrav0012fl.jpg

Snow Crab and Lobster Ravioli with Rock Shrimp Cream Sauce

This is a hearty, rich, decadent appetizer, but can also be served as a main meal.

Serves 10 as an appetizer or pasta course, 4-5 as a main course

You will need:

Two packages each: Snow Crab Ravioli and Lobster Ravioli (about 40 pieces of pasta) from Trader Joes.

2 pounds rock shrimp (tastes very much like lobster, available at Trader Joes)

1.5 Quarts Heavy Cream

One pound Fontina Cheese (shred in cuisinart)

Half Pound Asiago and Parmasean Cheeses. (shred)

A few shallots

A red bell pepper

Bunch of scallions

Bunch of cilantro

First, make your sauce

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Begin my finely chopping the shallots, saute in the bottom of a 2 quart pot until soft.

Add the heavy cream, lower heat and reduce to 2/3 the volume.

Add the cheese in batches and stir. Reserve ¼ of the cheese.

Set aside.

Give the pepper, scallions and cilantro a medium chop. The Mooseskinner serves very well, it is light and sharp, with enough belly to rock cut. The wide balde allows you to scoop up ingredients well.

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Lay the uncooked ravioli in casserole dishes in a single layer, top with Rock shrimp.

http://img197.exs.cx/img197/3914/dcrav0091hc.jpg

Cover the pasta with your cream sauce, top with remaining cheese. Place in 325 degree oven for 35-40 minutes.

http://img197.exs.cx/img197/3300/dcrav0120ow.jpg

Remove from oven when cheese is golden and bubbly and pasta has cooked through.

Plate and top with Red Pepper strips, cilanto and scallions.

Enjoy with someone you love.

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Outdoors Use

The Mooseskinner serves equally as well in the outdoors as it doe sin the kitchen. Given its design and intended purpose, that is no surprise.

While it is a bit wide for wood carving, it is a good general camp knife.

Splitting wood into kindling to use in my Kelly Kettle proved an easy task.

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Whacking across the grain to cut to lengths short enough to fit in the fire pan was very easy as well.

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The fully enclosed tang makes the Mooseskinner nice to use in cold weather. It also decreases vibration. Care must be taken when using a thin knife for batoning, but a good quality knife should not be damaged in the least.

A quick flick of the spine along a ferro rod sends some nice sparks into waiting cotton tinder, ready to bring a fire to life. One thing I do with my cotton balls, is take a cotton ball, rub vasaline into it, then stick that inside a dry cotton ball. The dry cotton ball ignites easily, and the soaked one keep it burning for a good while. Once the cottin ball ignites, I add a handful of wood shavings, which the keen edge of the Moosekinner easily produces.

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As well as the Mooseskinner, Dale makes the Nessmuk pattern in the standard size and the Mini. The mini Nessmuk features a 1/16" blade (mine is 01) and is a pocket scalpel. Dale also makes a variety of other patterns, the Utility knives and the Wharncliffe are good choices.

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For more information, and to see Dale&#8217;s full line of knives, please visit his website however, Dale is not taking prepaid orders at the moment, it may be possible to get on an extended waiting list (~at least 1 year wait):

http://chudzinski.tripod.com/

 
just how thin are you talking about? There are some pretty thin Busse knives.

If you want tough, maybe you could look for one of the Busse kitchen knives.
 
Thin for me is the Murphy on the left of my picture above.
Thin for someone else could be the Marbles on the right of the picture above.

Kind of like asking "How long is a piece of string?"
 
How about the Spyderco Moran model? I like it, but I wouldn't want to do a bunch of batonning with it. I don't do that with any knife. I use an axe or hatchet for splitting big wood.
 
I agree that the Deerhunter is an excellent performing knife, but it need not be limited to light cutting, in my opinion.

A 1/16" knife has about 5% of the strength of a 1/4" thick knife so it is much more limited. Of course what an individual user requires will be different from one person to the next.

[Deerhunter]

...is that it does not fit my hand very well. As well, that push botton lock sheath is not one I favour personally.

I am not overly positive about the grip either but due to the cutting ability I don't find it to be much of a drawback. Optimally I prefer something like Wilson's grips, his enclosed handles are really nice. His prices for the same knife are significantly higher however and you get the same geometry in the Deerhunter. I actually like the Deerhunter sheath function wise though there are durability issues with plastics in general with cold. I'd like to see a version of the Deerhunter in A2 or 13C26, both full hard.

As well, you would be suprised how much work a well built knife that is a mere 1/16" thick can perform.

Personally, I don't consider something like 1/16" full flat/convex actually optomized for simple cutting as you don't need that cross section for such work where the blade isn't going to be intentionally laterally loaded or impacts. In the above I was speaking in generalities and if someone wants the toughness of a 1/4" blade they are not going to find anywhere near it in a 1/16" blade.

I have used such knives (1/16" class) extensively and those which are far thinner. The standard Olfa trade knife is about 1/64" thick and my personal EDC blades have deep hollow grinds so at 1/4" back from the edge they are ~0.015" thick. That is a geometry which is designed simply to cut well and has a minimal tolerance for lateral loads.

[Dale's blade]

Nice knife, what are your thoughts about the hump specifically.

Dale makes his knives for experienced users. They are thin bladed, high performance cutting machines. He does not overbuild them to add extra durability for use by foolish people. His knives are meant to cut meat, rope, leather and wood. Dale is very straight forward about his opinion of "concrete choppers" and their place in the universe.

Consider that the difference between Alvin Johnston's knives and Dale's in relative cross section is actually much larger than the difference between Dale's and the heavy tacticals. This would imply that all of the above implications/labels could just as easily be applied to Dale and the people who use his knives by Alvin or someone who uses his knives. Now you could argue that Dale uses a greater cross section and tempers his steel much softer so his knives are more able to resist impacts and general non-precision cutting loads. This is a prefectly valid arguement and a simple consideration of an extension of the exact same principles would produce knives such as the RD9.

If you allow that a choice to use a knife ground like Dale does over a knife ground like Alvin does is valid then you also have to allow that the same choice can be made by someone else who sets a different tolerance for lateral loads/impacts and this does not imply that he is any less skilled or ignorant than the person who chose Dale's knife over Johnston. When I worked in construction the 0.5 mm Olfa was standard however a number of people experimented with the 0.7 mm. Years passed and now almost everyone uses the 0.7 mm. It isn't like they could not do the work with the 0.5 mm's, they did for years, however they all found that the 0.7 mm allowed them to do it more efficiently.

There is of course a counter to this which is the lower cutting ability. I'd actually be curious if 0.9 and 1.1 mm blades were offered free which ones would end up being used. On a side note, they don't use non-replaceable blades which are drastically stronger simply because they would have to be sharpened.

-Cliff
 
Cliff:
A 1/16" knife has about 5% of the strength of a 1/4" thick knife so it is much more limited.
Indeed, much more limited. However, for the vast majority of users that I see, a 1/4" blade of tempered spring steel is far overbuilt. If the intended use is mainly camp chores and the like, a much thinner blade will suffice. Of course, if people want to carry more knife than they need, that is there choice. I have seen Humvee and super built off road 4x4 trucks in the suburbs that have never left concrete. If people want to put up with the rough ride, bad gas mileage, etc, and not get the benefits, that is there choice. Similiarly, if people want to use a 1/4" thick bowie knife with a 10" blade for cutting a stick to roast a hot dog on, that is their choice.

For the rare circumstance where a big, thick bowie is needed, they are a great tool. Lesser knives would no doubt snap or shatter. But those uses are pretty rare for someone like me, and I am guessing for many others. But the big, thick knives looks cool, they carry the allure of assocation with those who need that kind of strength and toughness. The most experienced outdoorsmen I know all carry what many consider to be humble knives, but they know how to use them.

Nice knife, what are your thoughts about the hump specifically.

It makes the blade wider, and thus less able to turn in tight spaces for wood carving, some food prep, etc. But it is good for scraping, cracking open nuts, and the like. On the whole, I can't really say it is a superior design for my uses than a standard drop point, but I have found it a nice feature when I have had occasion to use it. For example, it allows a nice spot for a pinch grip.

If I was more of a hnter, I would probably think it was much more useful, especially for use inverted when making bellly cuts, skinning, etc.

Overall, the blade shape is nice for meat slicing.

Consider that the difference between Alvin Johnston's knives and Dale's in relative cross section is actually much larger than the difference between Dale's and the heavy tacticals. This would imply that all of the above implications/labels could just as easily be applied to Dale and the people who use his knives by Alvin or someone who uses his knives. Now you could argue that Dale uses a greater cross section and tempers his steel much softer so his knives are more able to resist impacts and general non-precision cutting loads. This is a prefectly valid arguement and a simple consideration of an extension of the exact same principles would produce knives such as the RD9.

If you allow that a choice to use a knife ground like Dale does over a knife ground like Alvin does is valid then you also have to allow that the same choice can be made by someone else who sets a different tolerance for lateral loads/impacts and this does not imply that he is any less skilled or ignorant than the person who chose Dale's knife over Johnston.

That is a valid argument. Point well taken. All things are relative.

In the bottom picture is a small half tang utility knife by Dale, 1/16" O1, run much harder than his 15n20. Though its performance could be increased with the addition of a hollow relief grind, as is this knife out cuts an Opinel.

I'd like to see a version of the Deerhunter in A2 or 13C26, both full hard.

I would prefer full hard M2 with a different handle design. Something like the handle on the Wharncliff blade above.

I'd actually be curious if 0.9 and 1.1 mm blades were offered free which ones would end up being used.

Among tradesmen, what is cheap and readily available is going to be used is my experience.
 
My goodness what a great post . I have not been on in a while so I have to catch up .

Has someone mentioned a knife where the tang is the handle ? I have a file knife which is just exactly that . It looks like a large patch knife .

I think a smaller Gil Hibben thrower is a good shape for an all around knife .
You may look at them as a shape of a thin knife and find the appropriate knife in another steel . I think the hibbens I saw were a little soft for an all around knife . They are thin and as they have no handle may be a bit lighter .

I betcha there are patch knives that would fit your criteria . Some of them are very nice looking as well .
 
Interesting post on the Nessmuk. I have one also (not by Dale), and although I like the knife, I'm not sure the hump is more of a hindrance than a help. I'm gravitating towards something like the Dozier K2, which is an excellent all purpose knife. Nessmuk was strange, he liked large folders and small fixed blades, I prefer the opposite.

One other very nice thin fixed blade besides a Dozier is the CS All Terrain Hunter. This is a very nice light knife that won't be around much longer.
 
Similiarly, if people want to use a 1/4" thick bowie knife with a 10" blade for cutting a stick to roast a hot dog on, that is their choice.

If that is all you are going to use it for that doesn't seem like much of a sensible choice unless you are carrying the knife as you just like knives of that style or similar reasons. That senario however isn't what I would describe as "wilderness survival". I would also argue that a 1/4" thick blade on a 10" bowie is a lot less overbuilt than a 3/16" thick blade on a 4" knife and there are a lot of those which are constantly praised by people who at least present themselves as experienced outdoorsmen.

For the rare circumstance where a big, thick bowie is needed, they are a great tool.

A bowie is basically a small parang with a clip point. It should not in general lack in versatility or cutting ability when properly designed. In most cases it isn't the spine thickness which is the critical issue with lack of performance but improper optomization of balance which makes the blade heavy and slow and a geometry which basically makes it more of a smashing wedge than a cutting tool.

At worse cases I have seen such knives with edges which are heavier than 0.050"/25 degrees with sabre grinds none the less, near intersecting static/dynamic balance points and little to no tip penetration ability as there is pretty much no taper. That knife really doesn't serve much of a purpose for wood craft that I am aware of but that doesn't represent what a 1/4" blade can do anymore than a hardware store axe would tell you how a Bruks would perform.

But the big, thick knives looks cool, they carry the allure of assocation with those who need that kind of strength and toughness. The most experienced outdoorsmen I know all carry what many consider to be humble knives, but they know how to use them.

Would you really call a native in nepal using a khukuri or a guy in malyasia using a parang someone who is ignorant of proper tool selection and carries their knives because it makes them feel cool/tough. That class of knife is a very common bush tool. It is also possible that people carry more knife than what they need because they just want to be prepared. How would you characterize someone for example who bought really cold weather gear simply because they wanted to be able to handle low probability worse case senarios. Again they are likely paying a lot more and heaving to deal with more weight/space than generally needed but does this imply they are less skilled or ignorant.

For every stance you take someone can easily move one step further. If an individual wishes to degrade those who carry 1/4" thick knives because he only needs 1/16" knives then a person who carries 1/32" blades can so degrade them. The guy who doesn't carry any knife at all because he just makes his own can then rant on about all of them. None of this is however overly productive. It may be that someone is carrying more knife than they need because they have a rambo complex. Maybe they are operating under a false assumption because someone told them they need it. Maybe they just like knives. However, just maybe the knife is actually suited to them. Why not give those individuals the respect that would be expected of them and discuss it with them and find out.

Consider your recent comments in the GB&U thread about Dale and how you would like people to act. It is easy to judge and condemn, it is harder to admit that you might be wrong and ask the other person to show you why. It is also really absurd to believe there is no chance of that happening regardless of your level of knowledge, skill or ability.

Among tradesmen, what is cheap and readily available is going to be used is my experience.

What I find amusing is that you suggest that a decent folder would solve problems with the $1.99 special and you might as well have suggested their saws recieve gold plating to prevent rust, however the same guy will turn around and buy a high capacity air nailer for hobby work in his garage. We all have our "bling".

I'm gravitating towards something like the Dozier K2, which is an excellent all purpose knife.

That's a really nice general use knife. I like the whittler design personally, but in general don't like D2 as a wood cutting steel because the wear resistance generally isn't beneficial and the grindability and low edge stability are drawbacks.

-Cliff
 
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