Best NYC/NY State knife?

Josh, not sure if you are saying can I prove it? Yes. Arrest records show the DATES of arrests. A simple knife possession arrest will only occur in the start of the month if the suspect has a really bad attitude or the officer took off the last part of the month on vacation. These arrest can occur anytime, but are almost always the result of a need to fulfill an arrest number requirement or in response to a mandate to make arrests for weapons based on a spur in robberies or assaults.

There was an officer all over the news who went public with both this and the fulfilment of the 250 form number requirment ( stop and frisk with out an arrest made).

I totally feel this is a direct answer to the OPs question, as like it or not this is how the law is enforced in NYC. If the DA DPs ( declines prosection) the knife charge, that does not effect the officer's record that he made the required arrest.
 
thejamppa said:
I hope its not matter of time when one hand opening will be next big problem...
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Twenty five years ago NY police would take you to jail for possession of a Buck folder with a "Flickit" thumbstud attachment, or a Buck folder that was housed in a leather sheath designed to open the folder as it was drawn. I believe they considered this "dangerous" or that it implied "intent" as neither device was specifically mentioned in the Penal Law. This was before Spyderco introduced their "Police" lockblade with thumbhole, and soon thereafter a variety of makers began incorporating thumbstuds and flippers until one-handed openers became common.

As far as I know, small single-edged fixed blades remain legal, such as the Sharpfinger or Bird & Trout. In NYC if a policeman sees a sheath, pocketclip, or "suspicious bulge" he can search you, claim the knife was "not properly concealed" and take you to jail. Requirement of concealment does not apply outside of NYC, but it seems like a good idea regardless.
 
Bob W said:
A $12 chinese knife with phony U.S. military insignia, a fake double-edge, and black weapon-like styling... I can't imagine anything more ridiculous or useless.

But who knows, maybe just what the original poster had in mind... :rolleyes:
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the knife i posted a link to is essentially what I edc...only mine has green handles and an "army medallion"...the knife holds a sharp edge very well, is impossible to "flick" open, when open locks up tighter than an ants anus (if you threadlock the pivot screw), opens fast when "waved" open, and is just a great knife overall!
 
tyr_shadowblade said:
Twenty five years ago NY police would take you to jail for possession of a Buck folder with a "Flickit" thumbstud attachment, or a Buck folder that was housed in a leather sheath designed to open the folder as it was drawn. I believe they considered this "dangerous" or that it implied "intent" as neither device was specifically mentioned in the Penal Law. This was before Spyderco introduced their "Police" lockblade with thumbhole, and soon thereafter a variety of makers began incorporating thumbstuds and flippers until one-handed openers became common.

As far as I know, small single-edged fixed blades remain legal, such as the Sharpfinger or Bird & Trout. In NYC if a policeman sees a sheath, pocketclip, or "suspicious bulge" he can search you, claim the knife was "not properly concealed" and take you to jail. Requirement of concealment does not apply outside of NYC, but it seems like a good idea regardless.
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I remember the "Flickit" and know several people who have used them on their Buck 110s and 112s. The consensus was that "Flickets" were gimmicks, added weight/bulk to an already heavy and bulky knife and abraded the material of the pocket in which it was carried. When I decided to began EDC'ing a locking folder back in 1978, I passed on the Buck 110/112 and opted for the Gerber FSII. Ahead of its time in terms of design, it featured a "hesitation notch" cut into the pivot part of the blade. If you thumb the blade out to 30-35 degrees, it halts in the hesitation notch and can be opened the rest of the way with a quick wrist flick. Slim, light weight and compact with a 3 3/4" razor-sharp blade, it was my EDC for about 10 years, including 4 years of college. It concealed easily in a trouser or jeans pocket with no "printing". Long favored by armed professionals as well as sportsmen, it is no longer manufactured by Gerber.
 
tom19176 said:
Personally at the moment with several knife dealers no longer shipping ANY knife to NY, this question is hard to answer. The best solution is a non locking folder under 4" blade that is not a weapon designed blade. If you must go for a locking blade, then I suggest a sod buster liner lock as I have never seen a flickbale one yet. I would avoid any pocket clips, so I am not sure how you carry IWB, but SMKW offers clipable sheaths that could house a Sod Buster.
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The best option is ebay, if you know what knife you are looking for :)
 
ASBOB said:
I just tried my UKPK, holding it in three places, from the tip to the middle. It doesn't come close to flicking. It felt as steady as my locking Buck 112. Take off the wire clip, tuck it in your pocket, and you might be alright.

Some other notes: if you look inconspicuous, I doubt the cops will be looking to see if there is a knife bulge in your pocket. But a clip would be a huge no-no.

Also, as was mentioned, some buildings do not permit any knives of any sort. Keep in mind that NYC is an active target for terrorism, including a recent incident, so everyone is very security conscious. Many office buildings check your bags upon entry. Any government building--state, federal or local--will have you empty your pockets. At one time they just took my SAK, put it in a locker, and gave it back when you left. Now it's confiscated; my best buddy, a longtime New Yorker, carried a small SAK for years, had to do a job in the municipal building, and lost his knife. If you're going into the Federal Court House in Lower Manhattan, the security is intense, including various vehicle checks, and federal LE personnel with MP5s, at one time on very public display; keep in mind, this is where all trials of major terrorists take place. Think security for a Mafiosa trial, but on mega steroids. The Empire State Building, a major landmark and hence a serious security concern, has since 9/11 done a full metal check before you are allowed past the checkpoint, into the main lobby, including hand wands and a metal detector like in the airports. This is just to go to the observation deck as a tourist. When I went to Yankee Stadium in 2008, you could bring in a bag, but it had to be clear, so that guards could tell at a glance what was in it--or rather make sure that certain items were not in your bag.

I'm not trying to scare you; I love NYC, but it is a world entity, and like London and other places, it pays the price. Just be aware of local conditions before you go, and plan accordingly.
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That's the main reason why I want to leave NYC, all these ridiculous laws from terrorism and everything else.
 
GA/\/\/\/\A said:
So, "gravity" knives (ie every modern design possible) are out of the question for legal carry in NYC.

I don't want to carry a swiss army knife.

Are there any viable options that are similar to a Buck 110?

NYC law requirements:
  • Cannot be opened by flicking wrist (aka gravity)
  • Blade up to 4"
  • no button release or auto's

My preference:
  • light weight
  • locking blade
  • cpm 154cm or similar
  • low profile for good for in-waistband-carry
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I have the same problem, but I'm not in manhattan. This is one amazing knife, and fits your problem. I have this knife and its amazing for the price.
(( Do not link to live auctions. ))

The thumb stud doesn't work unless you oil the knife, and it has a flipper on the back for easy opening. No spring, so I guess not a gravity knife??
 
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This is my understanding of NYC knife laws as a NYC resident.

The blade must be less than 4 inches (4 inches is NOT THE LIMIT it must be UNDER 4 inches LESS THAN) and I would take this measurement from tip to handle as I would anticipate in NYC they would probably interpret the unsharpened portion of the blade to be part of it's length.

If it's legal to carry they don't want to see it. It must be concealed and now they are considering an exposed pocket clip to mean it is not properly concealed (that is illegal here.) This is one strange thing about NYC knife laws in contrast to other states that don't allow concealed carry.

Then there is the usual switchblade and ballistic knife bans. These are clear cut.

Things start to get foggy with their interpretation of what is a gravity knife. During the time the law was passed a gravity knife had a button that you pressed allowing the blade to fall open and lock. Those were out of the front knives like the German paratrooper knife.

Despite a NY state court ruling that a balisong is not a gravity knife you will still get pinched for it NYC and in light of US customs recent interpretation of balisongs as contraband I am not sure if NYC will attempt to use that to justify outlawing them, so as far as I am concerned, this matter has not been settled yet.

NYC uses the term centrifugal force to describe blades that can be flicked open and locked.

From what I know up until very recently it was interpreted as flicking open while holding the handle. However these days if your stiffest lockback can be iron gripped strongly by the blade and the handle hurled away from it locking the knife open, they will call it a gravity knife, and my understanding is that some judges have upheld that in cases.

This puts almost any locking folder into the illegal category, even the huge amount of those that are specifically not designed to be flicked open, and would be dangerous to the user to do so.

I would hope this flawed interpretation does not stand.

Now comes the very vague Dagger, Dirk, or any Dangerous weapons part. Double edges of any kind are a clear cut no no but the mystery comes with what exactly is considered a dirk or a dangerous weapon.

In NYC any weapon except for PEPPER SPRAY (edited to correct. I have a bad habit of calling pepper spray mace. Mace makes pure pepper spray make sure it's that and not CN or CS) is illegal for the average non licensed non police etc.. person.

This means if you tell a police man you specifically carry a big fat magic marker to use as a self defense koboton you may get arrested.

That still doesn't tell me what a dirk is if I consider a dagger to be a blade made specifically for stabbing.

If you have a knife that is legal and you say it's for defense your may get arrested for carrying a dangerous weapon.

A concealed fixed blade UNDER 4 inches is completely legal and should be hassle free, however some cops can get creative and call it a dirk, dagger, or dangerous weapon. This means you will have to sort it out in court after getting arrested or summoned.

Keep in mind the dangerous weapon clause. If you carry any knife even a stubby, tiny, blunted fixed blade, if the manufacturer of that blade designed it to used as a self defense knife or weapon, or makes such claims, it would be reasonable to figure out that that could be used as evidence that you did and intended to purchase, own, and carry a weapon.

It would be good advice to make sure you don't carry anything that it's creator, designer, manufacturer, etc... intended to be marketed or sold for self defense use, even if it is better suited as a utility tool.

The any dangerous weapons law is one of the most used and abused laws in NYC. Police often decide that whatever they think is a dangerous weapon is so, when in reality it's not, but you will be seeing a judge to sort it out nevertheless.
 
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greater, you got it almost 100%. The only thing I would comment on is the butterfly knife, as the NYPD legal division states it is a "dangerous" knife as it is a weapon by design long before Customs banned them from import. The several case law cases saying they were not gravity knives are of course a logical conclusion by the court, but never let the NYPD be under estimated in its creative way to enforce a law if they want too. Asissited openers have been classified the same way. Great city to live in right? The only upside was the transit worker who twice defended himself over a ten year period with a small in his pocket sheath knife and was not charged for the weapon.
 
tom19176 said:
greater, you got it almost 100%. The only thing I would comment on is the butterfly knife, as the NYPD legal division states it is a "dangerous" knife as it is a weapon by design long before Customs banned them from import. The several case law cases saying they were not gravity knives are of course a logical conclusion by the court, but never let the NYPD be under estimated in its creative way to enforce a law if they want too. Asissited openers have been classified the same way. Great city to live in right? The only upside was the transit worker who twice defended himself over a ten year period with a small in his pocket sheath knife and was not charged for the weapon.
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I'm not sure exactly to what case you are referring, is it this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/28/nyregion/28parks.html ?
 
I do believe that is the same case. Ten years earlier he killed an attacked in defense of a robbery and was not charged, and in this case he was at first not charged as it was viewed as defense against a robbery, until one of the persons he stabbed was found not to be involved in the robbery. Interesting that they are calling it a dagger in the Times report, and the begining of this one when they thought he was justisfied.
 
greater said:
I would take this measurement from tip to handle as I would anticipate in NYC they would probably interpret the unsharpened portion of the blade to be part of it's length.
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All states measure the blade that way, every state and every country, the ricasso is always part of the blade size.

what exactly is considered a dirk or a dangerous weapon.
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Dirk in any state (contrary to popular belief that it is not defined) is any knife that has a portion os sharpened edge on the back (spine). It used to mean any amount of sharpeneing even false edges, thats why if you look back many knives that where called Dirks may even be a clip point blade. However now it is considered anything with both sides sharp, but one not all the way down. If both sides are sharp all the way down then legally it is called a dagger.

In NYC any weapon except for mace is illegal for the average non licensed non police etc.. person.
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Mace is illegal in NYC
 
No pepper spray is NOT illegal these days (I should have used the term pepper spray instead of mace. My bad habit.) If you choose to purchase the Mace brand name make sure it's the pure PEPPER SPRAY and not the CN or CS (tear gas) version those are a no no. Pepper Spray is more effective and safer anyway from what I have been reading.

Not too long ago you had to go to your local precinct to register your pepper spray but not anymore. When I brought mine I went to my local police station to do so and the desk officer (an older man, he definitely didn't look like a rookie) looked at me like I was from mars and told me it was legal and I don't have to register it. You supposably have to purchase it from a pharmacy or gun store within NY (a very odd requirement.) That is why many dealers won't ship pepper spray to individuals in NYC.

You don't have me sold totally on the dirk definition. I have done a few google searches at one time. It seems what is considered a dirk varies quite a bit among educated sources (your definition is included among them.) I find the definition unclear and confounding, it may have even changed over time. You may be right, however I don't think it is yet clearly defined as far as NYC is concerned.
 
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greater said:
No pepper spray is NOT illegal (I should have used the term pepper spray)
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Pepper spray is legal yes, but mace is not. Mace is basically tear gas (orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile).

While the brand name "Mace" is actually now pepper spray (it was changed because pepper spray is more effective than mace was at incopacitating intoxicated people.

However there is still actual orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile sold which is illegal.

I know you meant pepper spray now, but I just wanted to clear this up for people who didnt know the difference.

Recently my friend had her can of "Mace" brand confiscated by the police because they where unaware it was pepperspray (as was she).

Point is, know what you have and why its legal because usually the cops dont actually know what is and isnt legal, or that Mace brand is actually pepperspray.
 
Yes Mace has changed but be aware they still sell their triple action which has CN, Pepper, and UV dye mixed. I wouldn't want to carry that in NYC.

Thank you for the clarification and the heads up. I edited my post to reflect that.

Also thanks Tom for enlightening me on the NYC Police department's legal stance on Butterfly knives I wasn't aware of that. It is definitely something to think about.
 
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greater said:
You don't have me sold totally on the dirk definition. I have done a few google searches at one time. It seems what is considered a dirk varies quite a bit among educated sources (your definition is included among them.) I find the definition unclear and confounding, it may have even changed over time. You may be right, however I don't think it is yet clearly defined as far as NYC is concerned.
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That is the problem, no where is what a 'dirk' is legally defined. I was just reading an article in I think Blade about the very effect, and the showed a line of knives that where all classified or sold as dirks at various times. The one thing I noticed they all had in common? Sharpened or false edges on the spine. I have read this to be a good definition if you wana be safe. Of course, legally, no one knows what a dirk is, or for that matter most of the weapons they list, as they dont take the time to define the terms they used (what sort of idiot lawmakers made these laws?)

In general it would be valuable to us all if someone who actually knew what a knife was and knife anatomy would help re-write these laws so that at least we would know what is illegal and what is not.
 
QuietBearr said:
That is the problem, no where is what a 'dirk' is legally defined. I was just reading an article in I think Blade about the very effect, and the showed a line of knives that where all classified or sold as dirks at various times. The one thing I noticed they all had in common? Sharpened or false edges on the spine. I have read this to be a good definition if you wana be safe. Of course, legally, no one knows what a dirk is, or for that matter most of the weapons they list, as they dont take the time to define the terms they used (what sort of idiot lawmakers made these laws?)

In general it would be valuable to us all if someone who actually knew what a knife was and knife anatomy would help re-write these laws so that at least we would know what is illegal and what is not.
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The problem isn't the definitions. The problem is people are scared of knives. When was the last time someone was arrested for carrying a "dirk?"
 
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