best place to buy a-2

I don't think that flatground is American made A2. What is it? Where did it come from? How was it made? I looked into them for A2 and got nowhere with it. I ended up just getting some proper Latrobe A2 through Aldo.

Even if it costs double, it's just a few bucks more, who cares? It's the steel for ****'s sake, get the best.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Even if it costs double, it's just a few bucks more, who cares? It's the steel for ****'s sake, get the best.
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I'm with Nathan. Shopping around for the cheapest deal gets you the cheapest steel... do you really want the most important part of your knife to be based only on the lowest bidder? I assure you, the big online warehouses are not charging you less because they're your friend. Guys like Chuck and Aldo charge a little more because they get the best and pass the quality on to you. (actually, sometimes AKS and NJSB end up being less expensive anyway, if you buy enough... so there's that ;) )

There's A2, and thennn... there's "pretty close to A2, kinda sorta, good enough... probably". When you buy steel documented as coming from Latrobe or Crucible or Bohler or Carpenter, or Starrett for that matter, you have a much higher likelihood of getting exactly what you want. In my experience, customers appreciate that.

ETA: I do use flatground.com, online metals.com, etc for stuff like guards and fixtures... but not for blade steel.
 
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Just FYI - I got a phone call from FlatGround.com today and they said their A2 steel is made by Precision Marshall here in the USA.
 
Well yeah, they make "steel products", but who actually made the steel? Someone somewhere took raw materials and made steel from it. Not rolled it out and ground it out and distributed it, but the actual steel manufacturer. Who made it? Where was it made? How was it made? I'm pretty sure it wasn't "Precision Marshall". I'm about 99% sure there is no actual electric arc vacuum remelting going on there.
 
Daniel Koster said:
Just FYI - I got a phone call from FlatGround.com today and they said their A2 steel is made by Precision Marshall here in the USA.
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A cursory web search of Precision Marshall does not show a steel mill under their ownership or control. Nor does their website state where they actually get their steel.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts they're buying from the lowest bidder who vends stock "within a range" of specs... who knows what that range is. The most glaring example of this is the junk being passed off as 440C and 154CM these days... it's almost impossible to track down where it was made, and frankly it's all JUNK. That's really unfortunate, because back in the day 440C and 154CM were among the best around... but what's on the shelves today does not come the same mills and it's nowhere near the same quality.

The "extra" cost of better cleaner alloys from bona fide American and European mills who are not afraid to put their name on their stock is instantly made up by the fact that you don't have to throw away blades that are full of inclusions and don't HT right... even before you consider actual performance in the finished product.

The closer you get to a true steel mill, the better steel you get.
 
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Precision Marshall is an old and respected company. I've used their steel for many years for dies and tooling and at one point for knives and have never had a problem with it. It performs in heat treat like expected and they don't have a problem with inclusions etc. They roll their steel in both directions and care about grain size etc. To my knowledge their quality standards are good and I'm sure someone using their materials can expect good quality.

And, just because you're using known material with certs from a reputable mill doesn't mean you're not going to have problems. I find inclusions in CPM 3V, CPM M4 and CPM 154 and that stuff has certs right down to the heat lot and it's expensive.

I hope no one using Precision Marchall steel thinks I'm saying they're cheap or using inferior materials.

What I'm saying is that the steel is one of the most important and least expensive components of a knife, so the cost of the steel is inconsequential. So, to the OP, I'd say, who cares who has the cheapest, IMO it isn't a relevant question. The question to be asking is who has the best. And I think your odds are better going with a known quality domestic manufacturer.
 
james terrio said:
A cursory web search of Precision Marshall does not show a steel mill under their ownership or control. Nor does their website state where they actually get their steel.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts they're buying from the lowest bidder who vends stock "within a range" of specs... who knows what that range is. The most glaring example of this is the junk being passed off as 440C and 154CM these days... it's almost impossible to track down where it was made, and frankly it's all JUNK. That's really unfortunate, because back in the day 440C and 154CM were among the best around... but what's on the shelves today does not come the same mills and it's nowhere near the same quality.

The "extra" cost of better cleaner alloys from bona fide American and European mills who are not afraid to put their name on their stock is instantly made up by the fact that you don't have to throw away blades that are full of inclusions and don't HT right... even before you consider actual performance in the finished product.

The closer you get to a true steel mill, the better steel you get.
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What?

Does the steel magically transform the further you get away from the mill? LOL

Steel either meets or doesn't meet spec. There may be preferences that knifemakers have on C content for example, but that doesn't automatically mean the materials that meet the spec but are outside of someones preference are junk.

If you want to know what your steel is, ask for a MTR and hope they're up todate on their paperwork
 
Kostoglotov said:
What?

Does the steel magically transform the further you get away from the mill? LOL

Steel either meets or doesn't meet spec. There may be preferences that knifemakers have on C content for example, but that doesn't automatically mean the materials that meet the spec but are outside of someones preference are junk.

If you want to know what your steel is, ask for a MTR and hope they're up todate on their paperwork
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No offense, but I think that is somewhat naive. I think that most people with any real first hand experience utilizing different manufacturers of equivalent spec materials and products, both as knifemakers and just in manufacturing in general realize there are vastly differing qualities and characteristics of same-name commodity materials.
 
Any recommendations on a good supplier for precision ground blade steel? It seems lately I am having a harder time finding the sizes I want in smaller quantities.
I'm looking for 6"x36" strips for projects. (CPM steels especially)

By the way I wouldn't hesitate to order from Flatground, I have tested their A2, D2, S7 and O1 extensively and it is excellent material.

I just got a message from a Chef, he has been using an O1 Chef Knife I made from Precision Marshall steel. He told me he hasn't done anything but strop the knife in over six plus months of full time kitchen use and it is literally hair popping sharp.
 
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Nathan the Machinist said:
No offense, but I think that is somewhat naive. I think that most people with any real first hand experience utilizing different manufacturers of equivalent spec materials and products, both as knifemakers and just in manufacturing in general realize there are vastly differing qualities and characteristics of same-name commodity materials.
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No offense but you're not the only one that's bought materials for industrial applications

For specific applications, sure. But you should know the effects that the alloying % have on the properties that one is looking for before saying/implying that anything in a range is automatically bad.

Outside of the same melt you are going to see variations in the same mill, so I don’t see where this is a cure all.

IMO one would be better served buying a lifetime supply of steel like Don Hanson and W2 or Howard Clark and 1086M (for example), giving one the best possible chance of having a steel perform in a reliable and repeatable manner. Outside of that, getting a MTR is probably the next best option IMO, at a minimum you'd know who made it and what's in it
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Precision Marshall is an old and respected company. I've used their steel for many years for dies and tooling and at one point for knives and have never had a problem with it. It performs in heat treat like expected and they don't have a problem with inclusions etc. They roll their steel in both directions and care about grain size etc. To my knowledge their quality standards are good and I'm sure someone using their materials can expect good quality.

And, just because you're using known material with certs from a reputable mill doesn't mean you're not going to have problems. I find inclusions in CPM 3V, CPM M4 and CPM 154 and that stuff has certs right down to the heat lot and it's expensive.

I hope no one using Precision Marchall steel thinks I'm saying they're cheap or using inferior materials.

What I'm saying is that the steel is one of the most important and least expensive components of a knife, so the cost of the steel is inconsequential. So, to the OP, I'd say, who cares who has the cheapest, IMO it isn't a relevant question. The question to be asking is who has the best. And I think your odds are better going with a known quality domestic manufacturer.
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I never spoke of price. I wanted american made do to qualtiy. Bought 7 square ft from aldo.
 
rickmenefee said:
I never spoke of price. I wanted american made do to qualtiy. Bought 7 square ft from aldo.
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I'm sorry, I was confused. There was one of those threads a couple days ago and I had a brain fart. My bad...

Aldo :thumbup:
 
Kostoglotov said:
Does the steel magically transform the further you get away from the mill? LOL
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Of course not. My point is about knowing which mill your steel comes from. Sorry for the confusion.

Nathan the Machinist said:
Precision Marshall is an old and respected company. I've used their steel for many years for dies and tooling and at one point for knives and have never had a problem with it. It performs in heat treat like expected and they don't have a problem with inclusions etc.
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I owe someone a donut :o :p Again the point is... how would I or anyone else know that without prior experience with them?
 
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Hey guy's. Flat Ground.com is a Bohler owned company. Most of the steel is produced by them or one of there sister companies. Buderus, the company we get a lot of our steels from, is one of them. There steel is excellent. Precision Marshall is a grinding company. They buy from the mill, grind it and then sell it back to Flatground. com. As for foreign or domestic, I have to admit, if it was all available in the states I would buy it from the states. It seems that most US mills are a bit pre-occupied with grades for the aerospace industry or they want to sell you 35 to 70 ton heat lots. German and Austrian mills are some of the cleanest mills on the planet and they produce grades that are either hard to find or not made here at all. As for as I can see "Flatground .com is a damn good bet for precision ground stock.
 
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