Best place to buy?

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Dixieblade57

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Jun 20, 2007
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I am in the process of putting together a new propane forge. I used this link as guide.
http://ronreil.abana.org/design2.shtml
Here is my version and where I am at with mine. I chose a 10" pipe it is cut at 22" and capped both ends. This gives me a usable 18" x 8" forge chamber after insulation.
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Also by cutting a round circle of steel and putting a foot on it that will also allow me to vary the length of the chamber being used by sliding this piece back and forth inside of the chamber.
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This will allow me to use only one burner for the present time till I can see if that is going to work and if not I am already set up for the other burner.
I still have some welding to do but this will be a work rest that can be slid back and forth to support different length of steel while forging.
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Both end are made so that they can be rasied for easy inspection or access if needed for longer material the rear door can be raised for longer materials if necessary. Both ends will have a suitcase type latches to hold shut while in use.
This may be my be my one screw up I was thinking to keep the minimum of 2" insulation aroung the opening I needed to cut the corners at that 45* angle, Now that I had time to reflect on this I am not sure I like it because it only leaves a flat in the bottom that should line up with my fire brick at only 2 1/4" wide. So I amseriously debating about going back and cutting the 45* pieces out and reframing the opening down square, which would leave me a flat at the bottom of the opening, lining up with my firebrick at 6'' wide.Its going to be a pain in the @$$ but I think I would like that better. If I go with a fire brick at 6" wide in the bottom it shouldn't be a problem. I am reminded of the ole ancient Chinese proverb, think twice and weld once. Or as my old boss use to say, "he had a bad case of head in the @ $$" !!!!
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So here is what I am thinking I am going to start with one T-Rex burner and see how the one does with the movable divider.
I need to know !
Where is the best place to buy 6#KAO Wool?
Where to buy ITC-100HT?
Where to buy the 1" thick fire brick that is long and can be cut to use for bottom? I use to have a link for these long sheet of brick but can't find it to save my sole.
Anyone with any constructive commments and advice is welcome to chime in on this project, if it ain't constructive comments my wife has has gave me enough of those!:D
Oh I almost forgot I have already got my pressure regulator and valve setup and all ready to go I just havent got around to welding mounting on the forge for it yet and it won't get mounted to the last thing after painting!
 
Yup, Darren can help you out, but I would personally recommend one of Darren's forced air burners. The control available is excellent. You can also just buy the few "hard to find" parts from hims and put your own together to save some $$. They're REALLY simple to build compared to a venturi burner...

-d
 
For the bricks that go into the bottom, I would recommend buying hard fire brick "splits". These are the same dimensions as regular brick, but 1/2 the thickness. Rather than try to find long ones (very tough to find), just purchase the regular length ones, and then knock a little off the end of one, and place them end to end in the bottom.

Something on the design of this forge caught my eye....the placement/angle of the burner holders. I would suggest flattening then out a little so they are set on a tangent to the inside or the forge. The way they are shown, it's going to direct the burner flame directly onto your work, which is going to create intense hot spots......this makes it very difficult to heat anything evenly, and will really mess you up if your trying to make damascus. I would aim the burners so that the flame hits near the top of the opposite side of the forge. This will create a swirling effect, and give you a much more even heat throughout the interior of the forge.
 
You may also want to consider adding (2) 1" layers of the kaowool/inswool instead of just (1) 1" layer. I would also use 8# density instead of 6#. Use (2) 1" layers instead of (1) 2" layer, the 1" thick stuff is alot easier to cut and work with. With propane you want more insulation so the forge is more economical to operate.

I buy my Inswool from http://www.hwr.com which has distributors across the country, I'm close enough to drive there. However, they won't sell you less then a full 50 square foot roll. You can also buy castable refractory from them. Anvilfire, Ellis knife works, or Budget casting supply all sell ITC100.

I'm building my forge with 2" worth of Inswool, a hotface 1/2" thick made from Versaflow 60 Plus castable (good to 3100F from HWR), and a coating of ITC100. This is the same 3 part refractory combination I'm using to build my new iron melting crucible furnace too.
 
Note, the Versaflow 60 Plus I'm using is a dense NON-insulating castable refractory. It's designed to take the high heats. The ceramic blanket provides the insulation. Just about any dense non-insualting castable is highly flux resistant.

BTW, if ceramic wool is exposed to too high of a heat, it won't melt, but it will shrink between 20-30% and loose some of it's insulating ability. There's nothing wrong with just ceramic wool and ITC100, but a dense castable will take mechanical abuse well and very high heats, prolonging the life of the refractory in the forge.

Edit, With the castable refractory, the internal form can be made so the castable itself provides a flat bottom floor instead of firebrick. If you want to prolong the life of the floor from fluxes from forge welding, you can use a kiln shelf on top of it, which can be made of more castable, or purchased commercially.

Edit2: FYI, you can't buy ITC100 directly from International Technical Ceramics. They work only through 3rd party distributors and do not have a website. I've spoken to the owner of ITC, who is a ceramics engineer, and a very nice gentleman, about the emissivity properties of his products. The answer is not simple and can't be given with a single number!
 
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Ed Cafferry I don't know because I have never done this before. So I am definately not disagreeing. I took my design off the link I posted.
:eek:I actually posted the wrong link origionally! This the link that I took my design from.http://fredlyfx.com/large propane.htm It shows the burner holder in a similar design. What you are saying is basically, the burner need to shoot straight across to the other side and this will create a vortex! Man that would be a big pain in the butt to get them burner tubes relocated because they are definatley pointed directly to the work, two inches from the btttom. I set them with a long pole and centered them that way. I cringe at having to move them
I do have plans for two layeers of the KAO Wool! Thank for all the info evreyone
 
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Yep, that's what I was saying.....the vortex thing. Burners that hit straight on the work are not a big deal for general blacksmithing chores, because generally your not using carbon/alloy type steels. (usually just heating mild steel, so nothing to be concerned with.) However, for Bladesmithing it can cause you a lot of problems. Just trying to save you some heartache.

I don't know, but from the design of the forge I would assume that the individual who created it is a general blacksmith, and not a bladesmith.
 
Hmmmmmmmmm, Thanks for the advice Ed. Damn thats going to be a major pain to move those burner holders. But you got to do what you got to do. Man I wish I posted this last week!!!!!!!!!!

Ed this is a very quick and crude handdrawing but this is what I should be looking for. the burner will be aimed at the opposite side too create the vortex or wrap around theroy thus creating equal heat within the chamber with no hot spots.

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Looks like I have some cutting, grinding, and repositioning, before rewelding to do. I want this forge for knife making as well as being able to forge a piece of steel in general, buk knife making is its primary purpose! Back to the drawing board so to speak!:grumpy: I would have been even more POed if I had put all this time into it and I couldn't do what I inteded with it. If You got to catch a design mistake now is the time.Thanks for the heads up on this!
 
The name for the type of burner mount in your drawing there is a "tangential tuyere"

An Oxy-Acetylene cutting torch, if you have one, should make quick work of relocating those tuyeres. Good luck with your build, I hope to see finished product in action! :D

What sort of refractory treatment are you planning for the doors?
 
The doors will recieve two layers of the 1" blanket, just like the body of the forge!
I don't have a torch but, I will manage! I have enough pipe to make two more I think, so will probably cut off flush to body and grind them out!
You know what they say about if don't you, "if a bullfrog had a back pocket he could carry a pistol to keep the snakes shot of him"!:p:D
Sorry I couldn't resist that. I am just glad someone helped to point this out to me before I totaly finished and then the forge doesnt peorform like its suppose too. So live and learn maybe somone else out there is building one like this and it will save them some heartache with their build.
 
DB besure to allow for the thickness of the insulation when you aim your burner. You do not want the flame to hit the wall to high or you will not create the vortex you want.
 
WadeH said:
DB besure to allow for the thickness of the insulation when you aim your burner. You do not want the flame to hit the wall to high or you will not create the vortex you want.
Click to expand...
I like to break out the compass and make a full scale diagram on paper of the shell and planned refractory thickness, along with a drawing of the support pipe, so I can take measurements with a rule and protractor to aid me in the placement of the pipe before welding.
 
I hear that I have already had those thoughts. Don't want to do this again!:rolleyes: I want to have it right this time a pattern sounds like a good idea!!!!!!!!!
 
bmcneil I got the pipe at a welding shop they had some leftover drops from a job. 10" is a min.though and I'd think of going to a 12" just couldn't lay my hands on one.

To Will Leavitt I am down here in LA (Lower Alabama) they just call it NW Florida:D

OK here is the redesign take a look and see what you think of the full size pattern. Disregard the actual position of the burner tubes and look at the mock up the white will be the insulation blanket KAOWool and the Red indicates the burner tube it will extend into 6"x18" chamber of the forge at the anlge I have it drawn and the end will be cut in the shape the Red indicates!
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Please take a look at this and see what you think of the redesign!!!!!!!!!
 
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