^^^^^^This it will do your serrated as well
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Best Sharpener for Small Knives?
- Thread starter Nephron44
- Start date
^^^^^^This it will do your serrated as well
Okay, I made a 2-part video of how I use the Lansky.
It shows the complete process of re-profiling a Victorinox up to the point of a polished edge that easily push-cuts cigarette paper using the following progression:
280 grid medium AO stone
650 grid Arkansas stone
1000 grid ceramic stone
2000 grid Saphire stone
3 micron and 1 micron 3M diamond lapping film attached
0.3 micron strop
The whole video is 35 minutes but you can of course skip through it. I certainly do not claim that this is the best way but it works very well for me and I hope it helps.
Part 1
[video=youtube;B52lFL0PzoE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B52lFL0PzoE[/video]
Part 2
[video=youtube;AdDLILmj3XU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdDLILmj3XU[/video]
Frans
It shows the complete process of re-profiling a Victorinox up to the point of a polished edge that easily push-cuts cigarette paper using the following progression:
280 grid medium AO stone
650 grid Arkansas stone
1000 grid ceramic stone
2000 grid Saphire stone
3 micron and 1 micron 3M diamond lapping film attached
0.3 micron strop
The whole video is 35 minutes but you can of course skip through it. I certainly do not claim that this is the best way but it works very well for me and I hope it helps.
Part 1
[video=youtube;B52lFL0PzoE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B52lFL0PzoE[/video]
Part 2
[video=youtube;AdDLILmj3XU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdDLILmj3XU[/video]
Frans
Frans -
The reason I was asking about the LoRay's stand, is that because for me the stand is a critical part of the sharpening system. Nerve damage in one of my hands prohibits me from using the Lansky or LoRay clamp in a two-handed fashion as shown in your photo. However, I would very much like to see any videos you would care to post demonstrating the use / strengths / weaknesses of the various sharpening systems.
From what I've read in your various posts, you have a great amount of exposure and technical knowledge of the various systems. I'm sure that I'm not alone among all the BladeForum membership in wanting to view any videos you would care to submit!
A question - do you have a preference between Lansky's old-style extruded & machined aluminum Super 'C' Clamp versus their newer-style made out of cast aluminum? Is there any performance difference between them, in your opinion?
Here's the old-style extruded & machined clamp:
Here's the new-style cast clamp:
Any comments regarding differences in usefulness of the two would be appreciated!
Craig
The reason I was asking about the LoRay's stand, is that because for me the stand is a critical part of the sharpening system. Nerve damage in one of my hands prohibits me from using the Lansky or LoRay clamp in a two-handed fashion as shown in your photo. However, I would very much like to see any videos you would care to post demonstrating the use / strengths / weaknesses of the various sharpening systems.
From what I've read in your various posts, you have a great amount of exposure and technical knowledge of the various systems. I'm sure that I'm not alone among all the BladeForum membership in wanting to view any videos you would care to submit!
A question - do you have a preference between Lansky's old-style extruded & machined aluminum Super 'C' Clamp versus their newer-style made out of cast aluminum? Is there any performance difference between them, in your opinion?
Here's the old-style extruded & machined clamp:
Here's the new-style cast clamp:
Any comments regarding differences in usefulness of the two would be appreciated!
Craig
From what I've read in your various posts, you have a great amount of exposure and technical knowledge of the various systems. I'm sure that I'm not alone among all the BladeForum membership in wanting to view any videos you would care to submit!
I don't think I will submit many videos as I enjoy the sharpening process but making videos, not so much
I had both the old style extruded as well as the newer-style cast Super 'C' clamp but I had a problem with the cast clamp where the treads got damaged and it could not be used it the vertical position anymore. I can not remember how it happened but I never used force so maybe it was just bad luck but I prefer the old style more.
Frans
Frans-
As usual, thanks for the great information. I could not find an old-style extruded C-clamp on eBay, so I will just have to be careful when using the new-style cast clamp - which was a risk to purchase, because I noticed it was made in China :-(
Would you mind expanding on your choice of the brown 650 grit natural Hard Arkansas stone, rather than Lansky's two alternatives (the blue 600 grit Fine Alumina Oxide hone and the gold 600 grit Fine Diamond hone)? What I have read on this and other sites is that for a given grit level, the natural Arkansas stones always take the longest amount of time to achieve the desired result. Thanks!
Craig
As usual, thanks for the great information. I could not find an old-style extruded C-clamp on eBay, so I will just have to be careful when using the new-style cast clamp - which was a risk to purchase, because I noticed it was made in China :-(
Would you mind expanding on your choice of the brown 650 grit natural Hard Arkansas stone, rather than Lansky's two alternatives (the blue 600 grit Fine Alumina Oxide hone and the gold 600 grit Fine Diamond hone)? What I have read on this and other sites is that for a given grit level, the natural Arkansas stones always take the longest amount of time to achieve the desired result. Thanks!
Craig
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 9,736
DMT Diafolds. DMT also makes a hone for serrations.
I think there are actually three alternatives
Many of the old Lansky sets come with a fine stone that is different from the Alumina Oxide of the later sets. I think it is ceramic but I am not 100% sure.
Once the edge is fully apex-ed with the coarser stones, it is already very sharp and from there on, depending on the intended use, any further sharpening I do is only to refine and polish the edge.
The diamond hones cut very fast but they leave a relative toothy edge and a very fine scratch pattern.
I have no strong preference between the Alumina Oxide and the natural Arkansas but the Arkansas stones are supposed to be more polishing in nature. If I have a lot of time I also sometimes use the White 1200-1400 grit Extra Hard Arkansas Hone as an extra step in between the Yellow 1000 grit Ceramic and Blue 2000 grit Sapphire.
Frans
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 13,391
I think there are actually three alternatives
Many of the old Lansky sets come with a fine stone that is different from the Alumina Oxide of the later sets. I think it is ceramic but I am not 100% sure.Once the edge is fully apex-ed with the coarser stones, it is already very sharp and from there on, depending on the intended use, any further sharpening I do is only to refine and polish the edge.
The diamond hones cut very fast but they leave a relative toothy edge and a very fine scratch pattern.
I have no strong preference between the Alumina Oxide and the natural Arkansas but the Arkansas stones are supposed to be more polishing in nature. If I have a lot of time I also sometimes use the White 1200-1400 grit Extra Hard Arkansas Hone as an extra step in between the Yellow 1000 grit Ceramic and Blue 2000 grit Sapphire.
Frans
Lansky does have three ceramic hones: a 600 'Fine' (red stone in blue holder), the 1000 'UltraFine' (white stone in yellow holder) and the 'Sapphire' stone. All are alumina (aluminum oxide ceramic).
David
Hi David,
Here is a photo that shows the 'Fine' stones that I have. From left to right:
Old style red stone in blue holder (600 Grit Ceramic
New style orange stone in blue holder (600 grit Alumina-Oxide)
Hard (450-650 grit) Naturall Novaculite Arkansas Hone
Fine (600 Grit) Diamond
The red old style feels a lot smoother than the new orange stone although both are rated at 600 grit. Any idea what the actual differences in type of material or fabrication process might be?
From experience I also know that the old type is a lot harder and even after 30 years of use, my original one is still flat and looks hardly used while the new style will wear and hollow out over time.
Frans
Frans
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 13,391
Frans,
Your experience with the older 'Fine' ceramic (red/purple in blue holder) mirrors mine, in that it behaves like other ceramics, with little/no wear and a very smooth finish. That orange hone is new to me; if it wears or dishes more, I'm assuming it's not a sintered ceramic like the older Fine/UF/Sapphire hones; those are essentially indestructable, unless they get damaged by dropping/fracturing. Maybe the orange is a more typical aluminum oxide stone with a different binder (I'd bet it is).
I never much liked Lansky's older 'grey' aluminum oxide hones (maybe 'corundum'; a naturally-occuring AlOx), as they never seemed to cut very well and tended to glaze & dish very easily. Maybe (hopefully) this newer orange hone might at least be a better cutter and less prone to glazing, even if it still wears a bit. That's often the trade-off with stones that shed grit and dish with use; they should keep cutting consistently because new grit is continually exposed, but they won't last as long or stay flat.
The 'grit' ratings of stones are essentially meaningless if trying to compare different abrasive types, such as sintered ceramics, which are almost always polishing stones, versus diamond or SiC or AlOx, which often are more aggressive than sintered ceramics, but still display distinctly different 'tiers' of aggressiveness, due to differences in the hardness & shape of the different abrasive grit types. Grit ratings are only meaningful when comparing different-grit stones in the same type/class/abrasive type (ceramic vs. ceramic, AlOx vs. AlOx, SiC vs. SiC, diamond vs. diamond). When directly comparing identically rated hones of different types, the diamond '600' would always be more aggressive than a '600' Aluminum oxide, which would itself be more aggressive than a '600' sintered ceramic. There are additional complications even within each type, due to differences in binders or grit crystal shape or configuration (polycrystalline diamond vs. monocrystalline diamond, for example; the 'poly' form will behave more aggressively and leave a coarser scratch pattern than identically-rated 'mono' forms).
And the 'grit' ratings of natural stones (Arkansas) are a toss-up and an estimation anyway, as they are 'natural', which means they're highly variable and inconsistent. Most of their finishing characteristics are determined by the surface finish applied to the stone during their manufacturing process, and also due to variations in the density of the natural abrasive ('novaculite', in Arkansas stones). The denser stones are the ones better-suited for finishing/polishing tasks (black hard and translucent hard stones, for example).
David
Your experience with the older 'Fine' ceramic (red/purple in blue holder) mirrors mine, in that it behaves like other ceramics, with little/no wear and a very smooth finish. That orange hone is new to me; if it wears or dishes more, I'm assuming it's not a sintered ceramic like the older Fine/UF/Sapphire hones; those are essentially indestructable, unless they get damaged by dropping/fracturing. Maybe the orange is a more typical aluminum oxide stone with a different binder (I'd bet it is).
I never much liked Lansky's older 'grey' aluminum oxide hones (maybe 'corundum'; a naturally-occuring AlOx), as they never seemed to cut very well and tended to glaze & dish very easily. Maybe (hopefully) this newer orange hone might at least be a better cutter and less prone to glazing, even if it still wears a bit. That's often the trade-off with stones that shed grit and dish with use; they should keep cutting consistently because new grit is continually exposed, but they won't last as long or stay flat.
The 'grit' ratings of stones are essentially meaningless if trying to compare different abrasive types, such as sintered ceramics, which are almost always polishing stones, versus diamond or SiC or AlOx, which often are more aggressive than sintered ceramics, but still display distinctly different 'tiers' of aggressiveness, due to differences in the hardness & shape of the different abrasive grit types. Grit ratings are only meaningful when comparing different-grit stones in the same type/class/abrasive type (ceramic vs. ceramic, AlOx vs. AlOx, SiC vs. SiC, diamond vs. diamond). When directly comparing identically rated hones of different types, the diamond '600' would always be more aggressive than a '600' Aluminum oxide, which would itself be more aggressive than a '600' sintered ceramic. There are additional complications even within each type, due to differences in binders or grit crystal shape or configuration (polycrystalline diamond vs. monocrystalline diamond, for example; the 'poly' form will behave more aggressively and leave a coarser scratch pattern than identically-rated 'mono' forms).
And the 'grit' ratings of natural stones (Arkansas) are a toss-up and an estimation anyway, as they are 'natural', which means they're highly variable and inconsistent. Most of their finishing characteristics are determined by the surface finish applied to the stone during their manufacturing process, and also due to variations in the density of the natural abrasive ('novaculite', in Arkansas stones). The denser stones are the ones better-suited for finishing/polishing tasks (black hard and translucent hard stones, for example).
David
Hi David,
The orange stone has been around for a while now and as far as I can tell, it replaced the red/purple one. I think I got my first one about 5 years ago it was the first set that I bought that came with the red case. All the sets that I bought previously as well as the second hand ones that I bought on eBay were with a black or dark blue case and had the red/purple stone.
I also have the feeling that the new orange is a more typical aluminum oxide stone with a different binder and I feel like it is a bit more aggressive cutting than the red/purple. I would say that the red/purple gives a slightly more refined edge so that would indeed suggest that it is a sintered ceramic.
I do prefer the red/purple but the orange is not bad either.
Frans
The orange stone has been around for a while now and as far as I can tell, it replaced the red/purple one. I think I got my first one about 5 years ago it was the first set that I bought that came with the red case. All the sets that I bought previously as well as the second hand ones that I bought on eBay were with a black or dark blue case and had the red/purple stone.
I also have the feeling that the new orange is a more typical aluminum oxide stone with a different binder and I feel like it is a bit more aggressive cutting than the red/purple. I would say that the red/purple gives a slightly more refined edge so that would indeed suggest that it is a sintered ceramic.
I do prefer the red/purple but the orange is not bad either.
Frans
Frans,
As BladeForums' eminent Lansky historian
, I wanted to ask you which Lansky clamp iteration in your opinion was best suited for sharpening small & medium knife blades. Here's the reason for my question: I've just purchased an unused circa 1990 Lansky 4-stone Universal system. It is housed in a black box, and has the same clamp shown in your video, along with the 600 grit red/purple sintered ceramic hone.
I'm wanting to buy another unused kit (as a backup for myself or as a possible gift for my son), but I'm willing to wait until I can find a 1st generation Lansky clamp. I'm wondering whether you think that clamp's machining was superior to Lansky's later clamps. I noticed, however, that Lansky's 1st generation clamp (with the bolt-on uprights) appears to have used circular rod holes. Even though I'm no expert, it would seem to me that the oblong holes of my 2nd generation clamp would handle maintaining a more consistent honing angle at the limits (the blade tip and the return).
If you wouldn't mind, let us know which Lansky clamp design you consider superior and why. Thanks!
Craig
As BladeForums' eminent Lansky historian
, I wanted to ask you which Lansky clamp iteration in your opinion was best suited for sharpening small & medium knife blades. Here's the reason for my question: I've just purchased an unused circa 1990 Lansky 4-stone Universal system. It is housed in a black box, and has the same clamp shown in your video, along with the 600 grit red/purple sintered ceramic hone.I'm wanting to buy another unused kit (as a backup for myself or as a possible gift for my son), but I'm willing to wait until I can find a 1st generation Lansky clamp. I'm wondering whether you think that clamp's machining was superior to Lansky's later clamps. I noticed, however, that Lansky's 1st generation clamp (with the bolt-on uprights) appears to have used circular rod holes. Even though I'm no expert, it would seem to me that the oblong holes of my 2nd generation clamp would handle maintaining a more consistent honing angle at the limits (the blade tip and the return).
If you wouldn't mind, let us know which Lansky clamp design you consider superior and why. Thanks!
Craig
Thanks for the compliment, Craig
I have never been able to get hold of the very first generation clamp with the bolt-on uprights so I have no experience with those.
The one in my video is still the original clamp that came with my very first set that I bought somewhere around 1980-1982. The Lansky was introduced in 1979 so I assume it it was introduced right after the first generation clamps. I still think it was the best clamp they made and one of the reasons why it became so successful. The first thing they changed was the full aluminum thumb screw and replaced it for a version with a plastic collar. The first major change was when they switched to the cast version which is not per definition bad but the material is rougher and it is more likely to scratch your blade. The screw threads are also a bit coarse. Of both types there have been versions with and without the notch for small knives and for the cast types there were also versions with and without skeleton cut-out tips
I would love to find one of the first generation clamps to try it out and make the collection complete but I have a feeling that I would not like the bolt-on uprights and the circular rod holes and would still prefer my second generation clamp.
Frans
I have never been able to get hold of the very first generation clamp with the bolt-on uprights so I have no experience with those.
The one in my video is still the original clamp that came with my very first set that I bought somewhere around 1980-1982. The Lansky was introduced in 1979 so I assume it it was introduced right after the first generation clamps. I still think it was the best clamp they made and one of the reasons why it became so successful. The first thing they changed was the full aluminum thumb screw and replaced it for a version with a plastic collar. The first major change was when they switched to the cast version which is not per definition bad but the material is rougher and it is more likely to scratch your blade. The screw threads are also a bit coarse. Of both types there have been versions with and without the notch for small knives and for the cast types there were also versions with and without skeleton cut-out tips
I would love to find one of the first generation clamps to try it out and make the collection complete but I have a feeling that I would not like the bolt-on uprights and the circular rod holes and would still prefer my second generation clamp.
Frans
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I also asked Lansky about the red and orange 600 grit stones and about the clamp. I just got this is reply:
"The pink fine stone is 600 grit ceramic and the orange fine stone is 600 grit Alumina Oxide. The orange stone is more porous so the pink will feel smoother. The pink ceramic have been replaced with the orange Alumina Oxide stones. In regards to your clamp. Lansky has gone through a few redesigns of our clamp over the years and we are releasing our latest design for purchase in January 2016. This new design will be more closely related to the older style clamp."
I hope the new clamp will be as good as the original clamp.
Frans
"The pink fine stone is 600 grit ceramic and the orange fine stone is 600 grit Alumina Oxide. The orange stone is more porous so the pink will feel smoother. The pink ceramic have been replaced with the orange Alumina Oxide stones. In regards to your clamp. Lansky has gone through a few redesigns of our clamp over the years and we are releasing our latest design for purchase in January 2016. This new design will be more closely related to the older style clamp."
I hope the new clamp will be as good as the original clamp.
Frans
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 13,391
That's at least some reason for hope anyway. It's good to know Lansky is still making an effort to improve the clamps. I don't use mine anymore (gave my 'best' clamp away), but it's somewhat encouraging to hear they seem to care about fixing these issues. Also interesting to hear their feedback on the orange stone. :thumbup:
David
Frans -
If you are having a problem in making your Lansky collection complete because you're finding that some eBay sellers refuse to ship to The Netherlands, I may can help.
If you'll locate a 1st generation Lansky set on eBay that you like, and let me know, I will attempt to buy it. If I'm successful, all you would need to do is reimburse me and pay for the insured international shipping to The Netherlands from Atlanta, GA USA.
You've certainly helped me refine my thinking and understanding of sharpening, and if I can "pay it forward", I'm happy to do so. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll message you with my email address.
Craig
If you are having a problem in making your Lansky collection complete because you're finding that some eBay sellers refuse to ship to The Netherlands, I may can help.
If you'll locate a 1st generation Lansky set on eBay that you like, and let me know, I will attempt to buy it. If I'm successful, all you would need to do is reimburse me and pay for the insured international shipping to The Netherlands from Atlanta, GA USA.
You've certainly helped me refine my thinking and understanding of sharpening, and if I can "pay it forward", I'm happy to do so. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll message you with my email address.
Craig
I just visited Lansky's website, and there's a photo and description of their new clamp design:
http://lansky.com/index.php/products/multi-angle-knife-clamp/
The text reads: "Original Design knife-handling clamp. This extruded aluminum knife handling clamp can hold almost any blade. The notched jaws provide secure and exact blade handling on almost all blades, including most narrow blades 1/2" wide and under"
MSRP is $11.99.
The extruded aluminum clamp looks very similar to the clamp design Lansky used from circa 1998 - 2003:
I'm sure Lansky hopes to quiet the clamor from all the disgusted and frustrated users of the previous rubber-lined clamp:
http://lansky.com/index.php/products/multi-angle-knife-clamp/
The text reads: "Original Design knife-handling clamp. This extruded aluminum knife handling clamp can hold almost any blade. The notched jaws provide secure and exact blade handling on almost all blades, including most narrow blades 1/2" wide and under"
MSRP is $11.99.
The extruded aluminum clamp looks very similar to the clamp design Lansky used from circa 1998 - 2003:
I'm sure Lansky hopes to quiet the clamor from all the disgusted and frustrated users of the previous rubber-lined clamp:
Yes, that is indeed the original clamp design and I am very glad that they brought it back.
I see that they also still sell the new design and they write: When sharpening highly polished or coated blades, we recommend the Dual Thumbscrew Soft-Grip Clamp.
I hope that they are just selling the remaining stock because if not, many websites will use stock photos and it might be a lottery which type will actually be delivered.
I see that they also still sell the new design and they write: When sharpening highly polished or coated blades, we recommend the Dual Thumbscrew Soft-Grip Clamp.
I hope that they are just selling the remaining stock because if not, many websites will use stock photos and it might be a lottery which type will actually be delivered.