Best Spyderco for SD?

Get a Chinook II.

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=22

Forget about a book or video.

I can't think of anything more intuitive than a knife, and I can think of no other knife that does as good a job as the Chinook II of communicating through its design, what to do.
James Keating and Sal Glesser designed this knife from the ground up for no other purpose than self defense.
It happens to serve well as a field knife, but it shines as a self defense knife.

If the knife inspires your husband to seek out instruction, read what Marc MacYoung has to say:

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

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Most so-called "knife fighting" training that is currently taught has very little to do with how knives are commonly used in violent situations. This is because much of what is being taught is predicated on what can only be called "dueling." This is not to say that what is being taught is ineffective, far from it. In fact, much of what is being taught would work if you ever found yourself in a knife to knife duel. Bad news, it works even better against unarmed or untrained people; which is going to get you into legal hot water when you use it that way. However, the mindset, physics, strategies and attacks that occur in dueling situations are radically different than the many other ways that violent people use knives.

The bottomline is that in the eyes of the law, using a knife on another human being is using "deadly force." There is a very narrow spectrum where the use of lethal force is allowed, and if you don't know it you will end up in prison, losing everything you own to litigation -- or both.

On this Web site, we also address many of the fads, marketing trends, fallacies and pitfalls promoted in the martial arts, women's self-defense, streetfighting, knife fighting markets regarding personal safety. We do this so you can be an informed consumer if you choose to pursue further training.

Quite a bit of dangerous misinformation is promoted as "self-defense" in those markets. It is dangerous because, commonly:

- it is untested and unreliable against both how criminals operate and the wide spectrum of how violence occurs in this society.

- with the training that would work, it is excessive use of force for self-defense -- and is therefore illegal.

- it panders to preconceived ideas, assumptions about violence, dysfunctions, the desire of the student to "win" a fight and -- even more disquieting -- to "prove something."

- it fails to take in considerations/complications regarding violence: like legal repercussions, complications arising from adrenal stress, ingrained moral/ethical inhibitions against violence and the long-term psychological damage of committing severe violence on another human being.

- it does -- as many people outside these markets believe -- promote physical violence as the primary answer to personal safety.

Although these statements are not categorically true, they are prima facie. All too often instruction in these markets overly focus on the physical prowess aspect and ignore the countless other aspects that go into developing effective personal safety habits. Personal safety is not about your ability to fight.

There are countless other issues that are far more important and far more effective for keeping you safe. If your goal is safety, you need to understand what is involved in the subject before you pay for what they call self-defense training, because most of it won't help you against a criminal assault. Nor does it match our definition of what needs to be in effective self-defense training. As such, if you buy into what they are selling as self-defense, then you are wasting your money. Again, we stress, you need to be an informed consumer.


http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

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If your husband wants to study knife fighting or self-defense with a knife, let him research it himself and make an informed choice.

Rather than a video, or a book, he might find a weekend seminar with someone like Michael Janich, or the co-designer of the Chinook II, James Keating, more profitable.

Did I mention the Chinook II? :)
 
I think most Spydercos are good self defense knives, whether that is their primary design consideration or not. Generally they are very ergonomic, strong, and easily deployable. Therefore I'd get your husband something that will be a good utility knife, that he can also carry for self defense. Based on what you're willing to pay, you can get him a nice Paramilitary or Mini Manix. I really don't think you can go wrong with just about any Spyderco.

Lets face it, odds the knife probably never will be used in a real self defense situation, but it will be used for general utility most likely.

This of course argues against the Civilian. The Chinook II is probably a good compromise as well.
 
I think Kgriggs listed some very good Spydercos for the use of self defense. I am getting more impressed with the Yojimbo each passing day. Now keep in mind that the Gunting is a knife of Spyderco's that was designed by Bram Frank and the knife is designed for his type of self defense discipline. But it is a masterpiece and now since it's discontinuation it is highly sought after. Here is a list of some of my personal favorites from the Spyderco line up:
C-56 Tim Zowada
C-77 Spyderhawk
C-12 Matriarch
C-36 Military
C-60 Massad Ayoob
C-69 Lil Temperance
C-50 Centofante II
There are at least a dozen more that I could mention but you need to see what fits your situation and your physical realm. A good Spyderco dealer could be a great help too. GOD Bless and the best of luck
 
Wow! I think I just got more confused. No, thanks... I bought the book and I think I will let him read it and do his own research, handle some and decide for himself. So book & $100 it will be. I'll definitely be sure to let him come and read all of your suggestions though. I really appreciate it!

Oh, my fil is a police officer and recommended the Military. I looked at this and the thing looks HUGE for everyday carry(especially in a professional work environment). Is it? Would the ParaMilitary be a better choice for everyday carry when you're wearing slacks? Hard to get an idea from pics.
 
I'd say a Civilian too. It's been designed for SD for people who have no training with knives. Also, any hawkbill blade will probably do the job. They're very effective at slashing. Avoid steel handles, they are pretty slippery, especially with sweaty hands.

A Military is also good for SD, I heard. The lock is MBC-rated. And it's prolly more impressive than the Paramillie.
 
I'm sorry my knife brethren have confused you with their advice...all of it is good but not useful to your needs. Many of the knives recommended are discontinued thusly not readily available in time for Christmas (you can get them on eBay etc. but before Christmas? not likely) Your decision to give the book and cash is a good one. Advise him to find a good knife dealer in his area so he can hold the knives before he buys. Your concern about the size is legitimate...many knives are a lot bigger than expected (or smaller) so best to let him decide what he wants to carry in his slacks. Be warned, if he chooses Spyderco, he won't be able to stop with just one...soon he will find reasons for several :). The Yojimbo does match your book as it was designed by the author of the book...only makes sense to match the book and the blade.
 
Hello DKKDP,

I'll disagree with some folks here on the "knife training".
If your husband is of at least average intelligence and average physical strength, with average cordination, he will be able to defend himself with a knife just fine.
The vast majority of knife defenses (and knife attacks too) are done successfully by folks with no knife-fighting training whatsoever.

But it might be a good idea to read up on "blood borne pathogens".

As for which knife, that's tough because we don't know his style and tastes.
But for sure I would advise one with a blade of at least 3 inches.

I would avoid the Military, Para-Military, and the Police models--only because I would'nt want to defend myself in court with those knives.
Some judges and jurors might associate negative thoughts with those names.
They could sound dangerous and threatening.

I would also avoid the Civilian and the Chinook and any hawkbills because they might look wicked and evil in the eyes of a jury.
It's not right or fair, but you have to consider these things.

One's that I would recommend:

Endura
Pacific Salt
Stretch
R-2
Manix

Those listed will all work just fine for self-defense and they don't have threatening sounding names.
The Pacific Salt can even be had with a bright friendly yellow handle.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
allenC said:
...I would avoid the Military, Para-Military, and the Police models--only because I would'nt want to defend myself in court with those knives.
Some judges and jurors might associate negative thoughts with those names.
They could sound dangerous and threatening...
Good luck,
Allen.
I agree with your thoughts on the Red Herring risk of those names on knives but when you look at the words highlighted it comes out pretty funny...:D
 
Hi DKKDP,

There is a lot of good advice that has come up here. Some training is really important. A book is a help, videos are also a help. A course with someone like Michael Janich, James Keating, deBethencourt, etc. (there are many excellent instructors) is best. There is a great deal more to their teaching besides knife manipulation.

The knife must be sharp and with him when he needs it.

Any of our knives will work, but some are specifically designed with MBC (Martial Blade Craft) in mind.

sal
 
allenC said:
Hello DKKDP,

I'll disagree with some folks here on the "knife training".
If your husband is of at least average intelligence and average physical strength, with average cordination, he will be able to defend himself with a knife just fine.
The vast majority of knife defenses (and knife attacks too) are done successfully by folks with no knife-fighting training whatsoever.

I agree with Allen and Ken (I usually disagree with Ken on everything sd-related!) Training is good, of course. Allen's post above is absolutely correct -- someone with a mindset to survive will be greatly helped out by a knife, training or no.

I would avoid the Military, Para-Military, and the Police models--only because I would'nt want to defend myself in court with those knives.
Some judges and jurors might associate negative thoughts with those names.
They could sound dangerous and threatening.

Continue to agree!

Regarding the knife itself, first find out what's legal in your area. I would stay away from all liner lock knives, and from any hawkbills or curved edge knives. Someone with little training, when faced with a situation where his life is in danger, will kick into primal stab mode. There's a feeling here that curved blades like the Civilian are great for people with little training, but I feel it's exactly the reverse situation: only someone very well-trained would be comfortable with a pure slasher. Some combative type drills where your partner comes crashing in is usually all I need to do to convince people that this is the case.


One's that I would recommend:

Endura
Pacific Salt
Stretch
R-2
Manix

For me, the R2 doesn't work in hammer grip, so although I otherwise love it, it's not a great SD piece to me. Endura, pacific salt, stretch are all great choices. So is the ATR that was suggested above. So are Manix and Chinook II if you're willing to carry something so big and heavy. Assuming these are all legal in the area they're intended to be carried.

Joe
 
Although I think I have at least average intelligence, strength and coordination I still find it difficult at times to retrieve and open a folder under stress (as in a simulated attack) and using it to your advantage. Unless you are planning on walking with your knife in hand all the time I believe carrying a folder for SD without any form of training is a bad idea. Then I may be below average of course
 
Joe Talmadge said:
I usually disagree with Ken on everything sd-related!

Every time Joe and I disagree, I come out of the conversation knowing more than when I went in.
When Joe disagrees with me, I pay attention. :)
 
...I still find it difficult at times to retrieve and open a folder under stress (as in a simulated attack) and using it to your advantage. Unless you are planning on walking with your knife in hand all the time I believe carrying a folder for SD without any form of training is a bad idea.

Granted, it can be difficult to deploy a folder under stress, but I see it like this...
If you're surprised and attacked "out of the blue", you would probably be better off using your fist and your feet (for running as well as kicking) rather than even trying to deploy your knife.

But it has been my experience that you can often feel a bad situation forming, or you get that little tingle from your "spydie sense", and that's the time to deloy your knife.
Don't wait until you are already being attacked--trust your gut, it will not steer you wrong.
How many times have you heard a victim say "I had an odd feeling" or " a bad feeling" or "it felt like someone was watching me"....but they ignored what their gut was trying to tell them.

As I often tell my wife:
Trust your instincts!
If the situation feels bad, pull out your knife (discreetly) and get out of the area immediately.

Sorry for the rant,
Allen.
 
I'm biased, to be sure, but the new Endura 4 or Delica 4 offer quite a bit in a reasonable weight and cost, depending on the size desired.

sal
 
Looking forward to them both Sal. Can see the E4 becoming my primary EDC


DKKDP, you're heading in a good direction and have great info here. Make sure to turn your hubby towards this site. Sure, he'll be hook and you'll start finding $200 knives all over your house inside a month, but he'll have EVERY single question he has answered.:D

I LOVE THIS PLACE!


Oh, and when did we get this smiley? :jerkit:
 
The delica4 and endura4 are a really strong evolution. The liners, especially, really stiffen up the handle. These are fantastic choices for defensive pieces, as well as everyday carry pieces.

To complete the mutual love circle, I read everything Ken and Sal write!
 
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