Best Steel for Chef's knife

Larrin said:
Those steels are really easy to sharpen when they're that hard, especially when they're thin. There are lots of people using those Japanese chef's knives with 64 Rc White and Blue steels without any trouble sharpening them. Some argue that higher hardness means easier to sharpen when talking about thin edges (I am one of them).
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Larrin,

I like a thin edge also, but I am a little concerned about how ductile the edge will be at 64. Should there be any concern about chipping along the edge when it is that hard?

Fred
 
Larrin said:
Reasons why people like carbon steel over stainlesses - easier to sharpen, tougher, takes a finer edge, easier to forge, etc.

13C26/AEB-L has carbides as fine as 52100, which means - easy to sharpen, tough, takes a very fine edge. Not much easier to forge than other stainlesses, but a little. Still need a controlled furnace for heat treating.
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I am preparing an order to Admiral this week. I believe I will try a piece of the 13c26 and see what its like.
I am exclusively a forger but am interested in trying new materials.
I have a digital furnace so the heat treat will not be a problem.

Fred
 
Hey, Don, I'm curious about your 52100 comment. I have a 1084 santoku that I love (Koster), and I was telling Daniel O'Malley of Blade Gallery about it, and he said that his favorite was 52100. I'm trying to reconcile his 52100 love with your 52100 "meh" reaction.

I also have a CPM-3V Santoku (also from Daniel Koster), but a colleague at work "borrowed" it on the day I got it, and I haven't seen it since.

I've stopped buying stainless kitchen knives. I do have two Boye dendritic cobalt kitchen knives (traditional rather than Japanese), which I use if I suspect the forces of evil (e.g. the babysitter) will be putting them in the dishwasher.
 
Gabe Newell said:
Hey, Don, I'm curious about your 52100 comment. I have a 1084 santoku that I love (Koster), and I was telling Daniel O'Malley of Blade Gallery about it, and he said that his favorite was 52100. I'm trying to reconcile his 52100 love with your 52100 "meh" reaction.

I also have a CPM-3V Santoku (also from Daniel Koster), but a colleague at work "borrowed" it on the day I got it, and I haven't seen it since.

I've stopped buying stainless kitchen knives. I do have two Boye dendritic cobalt kitchen knives (traditional rather than Japanese), which I use if I suspect the forces of evil (e.g. the babysitter) will be putting them in the dishwasher.
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Hey Gabe, I made a few blades from 52100 at least 12 years ago and just wasn't happy with the performance. Just didn't get the high Rc hardness I was getting with other steels. Most likely my heat treatment, don't know. I tried it a few years later, after learning a bit more about it and still didn't like it. Doesn't mean it's a bad steel, it's just not for me.

I want to start making a few kitchen knives again but it's hard to find the time to work them in.
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Larrin,

I like a thin edge also, but I am a little concerned about how ductile the edge will be at 64. Should there be any concern about chipping along the edge when it is that hard?

Fred
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I see micro-chipping occur with Blue Super and White steels at 64 Rc, but they are fairly brittle steels. I don't see it with 52100 (a fairly tough steel) at high hardness. These are all blades forged by the same smith, Murray Carter. I see rolling more often than chipping with thin blades. I performed a concret floor test on a 63 Rc AEB-L kitchen knife with no chipping or breaking, though the tip was at .011", I went thinner at the final grinding. I've never seen chipping or micro-chipping with high hardness AEB-L with thin grinds. BTW, AEB-L and 13C26 are the same steel. Try out a high hardness and see if you like it. I used a very low temper, only 300F.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. So many different recommendations. After reading all the replies, I think I will try a CPM154 and 1084 to see which one works best for me.

Next question, where can I buy CPM 154 in small quantities? Does any one have some they would care to sell? Would prefer 2" x 3/32" x 24".

Thanks again,
Bill
 
"there is a reason" - well spell it out !!


M A R K E T I N G

Somewhere along the lines, the mass cutlery market got the idea that most stainlesses are ill suited to long (read sword) blades. Since fantasy sword like things are a pretty big market, and the mall ninjas all want their swords to be "battle ready" and made of "cambat steel" they started marjeting their carbon, spring, battle, combat, and otherwise non-stainless blades.

When the marketing students noticed the perception of superiority such products commanded, and, more importantly, the premium they could command in the marketplace, they naturally took the carbon craze to the next level... Being the practical use cutlery...

Who better to market a "superior" performing blade to than the people who make a living using their knives all day every day?
 
Dan Zawacki said:
"there is a reason" - well spell it out !!


M A R K E T I N G

Somewhere along the lines, the mass cutlery market got the idea that most stainlesses are ill suited to long (read sword) blades. Since fantasy sword like things are a pretty big market, and the mall ninjas all want their swords to be "battle ready" and made of "cambat steel" they started marjeting their carbon, spring, battle, combat, and otherwise non-stainless blades.

When the marketing students noticed the perception of superiority such products commanded, and, more importantly, the premium they could command in the marketplace, they naturally took the carbon craze to the next level... Being the practical use cutlery...

Who better to market a "superior" performing blade to than the people who make a living using their knives all day every day?
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Man, I have been around knives for many, many years and have studied the market, both custom and production. I have never seen anything like this:confused:

It's actually the other way around. Carbon steels were being use long before stainless but now stainless is the norm. Carbon steel cutlery is not being marketed to anyone. Ya have to hunt to find carbon steel cutlery:confused: Stainless is everywhere.

Where did you fine this information?
 
Stainless steels for kitchen knives ZDP-189 ,Cowry Y, VG-10,and my personal favorite VG-10 Super gold 2 . I have tested alot of steels for kitchen knives and super gold 2 is the finest I have used by a long shot .


Carbon seels favorites include,Japanese blue or white steels ,cpm 3V,52100, I also like the new Cruciable cpm D2. but I feel the Japanese Blue steels have a super fine grain structure and a combination of hardness and toughness I havn't found in other carbon steels .They just rust way to easy.

Anyway just thought I'd share my favs
 
KenOnion said:
Stainless steels for kitchen knives ZDP-189 ,Cowry Y, VG-10,and my personal favorite VG-10 Super gold 2 . I have tested alot of steels for kitchen knives and super gold 2 is the finest I have used by a long shot .


Carbon seels favorites include,Japanese blue or white steels ,cpm 3V,52100, I also like the new Cruciable cpm D2. but I feel the Japanese Blue steels have a super fine grain structure and a combination of hardness and toughness I havn't found in other carbon steels .They just rust way to easy.

Anyway just thought I'd share my favs
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Ken thanks for poping in. Where do you find the super gold 2 steel? Its new to me.
Bruce
 
I Have been fortunate to get some small sampling pieces from Japan to test. It is very hard to find in the USA . Kershaw makes the Shun Elite kitchen knives with it and I managed to twist some arms and sell my body :) to get some and I'll tell ya I am thoroughly impressed . It is a nitrogen steel,stainless and super fine grained. I have been using a sample kitchen knife for over two years in my kitchen and although it isn't as sharp as when I got it .It still gets daily use ,still fairly sharp.And I still havn't had to sharpen it. I am tempted ,but I just wanna see how long it will cut well . It is approx 67Rc similar to ZDP-189 but in my experience it is tougher,more corrosion resistant and much tighter grained . I also carry daily a ZDP-189 folder, and a custom folder in VG-10 supergold 2 .The Super gold 2 always cuts better ,stays sharper longer and needs less touch up. I'm a believer.

I don't know where to get it in the USA .I believe it is a Hitachi steel. I wish someone with Japanese conections would import some so more of us could experience it . I am trying but not getting very far . Any of you guys have any conections?
 
KenOnion said:
I Have been fortunate to get some small sampling pieces from Japan to test. It is very hard to find in the USA . Kershaw makes the Shun Elite kitchen knives with it and I managed to twist some arms and sell my body :) to get some and I'll tell ya I am thoroughly impressed . It is a nitrogen steel,stainless and super fine grained. I have been using a sample kitchen knife for over two years in my kitchen and although it isn't as sharp as when I got it .It still gets daily use ,still fairly sharp.And I still havn't had to sharpen it. I am tempted ,but I just wanna see how long it will cut well . It is approx 67Rc similar to ZDP-189 but in my experience it is tougher,more corrosion resistant and much tighter grained . I also carry daily a ZDP-189 folder, and a custom folder in VG-10 supergold 2 .The Super gold 2 always cuts better ,stays sharper longer and needs less touch up. I'm a believer.

I don't know where to get it in the USA .I believe it is a Hitachi steel. I wish someone with Japanese conections would import some so more of us could experience it . I am trying but not getting very far . Any of you guys have any conections?
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Ken If we could find the Super gold 2, can Paul Bos ht it?
 
I just like good old 0-1 myself. I have had a thin chefs knife I made see alot of use in teh kitchen and I have yet to need to sharpen it and when I do........its as easy as butter to resharpen only with a soft stone :)
 
Don't chefs have anything better to do than buy chef's knives made from super-steel? :D
 
no no they dont adn dont tell them other wise
i like making kitchen knives and i dont want to stop
ive made then out of cpm154 (most the time) but also cpm10v and now cpms30v
looking at maybe tring cpmM4 and 3v if i can find it in stock thickness i want
 
What is the optimal thickness for a cooking knife? Ganton grooves yes/no?


and will a 1/16'' santoku warp in HT?
 
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