best steel for home heat treating? home-made forgers?

I'm faaaaaarrrrrr from being an expert, but would it be fair to say that a person could do a better job heat treating anything other than 1080 by using an electric oven/kiln than a gas/coke/coal/charcoal forge? The photos I've seen on this forum of gas fired heat treatment have not only a thermocouple to measure and control the heat but also an extra internal chamber (usually a pipe?) for the blade so that the flame doesn't blast directly on the knife. I don't believe this is needed when heating a piece of steel up to hit with a hammer.

This is just "opinion" on my part since I only have diddly squat for personal experience.

- Paul Meske
 
Paul, a muffle usually helps with heat treat if your chamber is big enough. In a 2BF I don't have enough room for one so I have to be a little more vigilant of the hot spots.

To the OP: do a search for Tai Goo's forge and how he does his heat treat. He uses a simple forge with a weed burner and quenhes in canola oil, I doubt anyone here seriously questions his abilities as a blade smith.


-Xander
 
His sanity, sometimes, his knife quality never. :) On the other hand, there's almost always a pearl of wisdom in even his craziest comments.
 
thankyou every one, the feeling im getting is make a forge that will do a good job, last thing i want to do is build something then build something else because the first design is limiting, so i will keep checking out everyones suggestions and post some questions if im unsure, thanks everyone
 
The biggest problem heat treating in a forge is temp control. Most steels need. "Controlled temps" to be very accurate. At least with 1080 or 1084 you do not have to be SO strict.
 
No, it is not, unless one has experience with it. 1095 is not beginner friendly.

Wrong!.... It's easy to heat treat but challenging to "optimize".

If you are a beginner and just want to see what you can do with the equipment you have, no problem. Just get it up a little above non-magnetic, hold it there for a few minutes and quench it in vegetable oil,... temper around 425-450 for an hour 2-3 times. It may not be "optimized", but you'd be surprised how much cutting you can do with it.

“Optimizing” it will take some time and experience...

Great steel to learn on.

The “experts” can argue and go around in circles all day long about what the best way to “optimize” it is.
 
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I may have missed it, but do you have a good grinder? If so, have you considerd something like prehardened steel? It's a PITA to grind, but I've made a couple of knives out of prehardened high speed steel saw blades. I couldn't come close to hardeneing it myself, but it makes a fine knife if you have the patience. If you don't have a good grinder, stick to the above advise.
 
I have sat back and read the posts so far, but will put in my 2 cents worth:

Build a forge you can use. It may cost a few bucks more, but will pay for itself in saved sanity and better knives. A 6-8" tubular body by 12-14" long forge is a simple and very usable forge. A simple venturi burner is all you will need to start with. The whole build should cost less than $100....maybe half that with some scrounging.

Use a simple steel. 1084 is about as simple as it gets. 1095 requires more work ( sorry Tai) and isn't the best choice to START on. 1084 is simple to get, simple to shape, simple to HT, simple to finish. The real plus is it makes an excellent knife. It is the only steel I would say that anyone could HT with only a torch and magnet.

Start simple and work you way up. A small drop point hunter is a good first project. Save the honkin' Bowie for knife number ten.

Only get/build what you need as you need it. Too many folks get good equipment before they have good skills. Making a knife with files and sandpaper , and sending it to another smith for HT is a smarter way to learn than buying/building $5000 worth of tools and messing up a lot of steel.
 
I have sat back and read the posts so far, but will put in my 2 cents worth:

Build a forge you can use. It may cost a few bucks more, but will pay for itself in saved sanity and better knives. A 6-8" tubular body by 12-14" long forge is a simple and very usable forge. A simple venturi burner is all you will need to start with. The whole build should cost less than $100....maybe half that with some scrounging.

Use a simple steel. 1084 is about as simple as it gets. 1095 requires more work ( sorry Tai) and isn't the best choice to START on. 1084 is simple to get, simple to shape, simple to HT, simple to finish. The real plus is it makes an excellent knife. It is the only steel I would say that anyone could HT with only a torch and magnet.

Start simple and work you way up. A small drop point hunter is a good first project. Save the honkin' Bowie for knife number ten.

Only get/build what you need as you need it. Too many folks get good equipment before they have good skills. Making a knife with files and sandpaper , and sending it to another smith for HT is a smarter way to learn than buying/building $5000 worth of tools and messing up a lot of steel.

bladsmith, thankyou for your input, all information on this site is extremely helpful to a new knife maker like myself, my first approach has always stuck, start simple and work up, here is my view on things

I feel that before i learn to walk in the mist of you knife builders i need to learn to crawl, and i feel this in the way i am starting off, if i want to build quality knives i need to start from the basics, appreciate that hard work, and know that its a hobby i will enjoy, so i will build my first knives with basic tools, files, saws, rasp and dremel, the only things ive had to buy so far are files and saws, this is my crawling stage, then when i have appreciated the hard work and i enjoy this,then i will look into buying electric sanders, drill press, anvil, i have seen in too many hobbies people forking out tons of cash and realising its just not for them, and when so many experts offer me advice i would be an idiot to ignore it, ive grabbed some 1084 steel, its all i read for beginners and how could so many of you fine craftsman be so wrong, ive also started with a simple design, a 4 1/2" drop point blade, nothing crazy about it, a simple wooden handle, its basic, the bowie, haha i agree that will be knife no.10 but i hope it will be made out of my own forged damascus too ;)

As for the forger itself, im doing a diy thing, weather i spend $50 or $100 on it, i just want it to do the job i need it too, and be able to take a blade big enough where i am not having to rebuild the entire thing 6-7 weeks down the track because it cant fit the new blade i want to build, so there has to be some practicality in it there too.

Trust me when i say that i have done nothing but taken in all advice, i have asked some stupid stuff, but its the only way i learn is to ask questions.

So thankyou for your response, i am and have taken on everything yourself and everyone else has said.

cheers mate
 
O.K. Stacy,... but easier doesn't always equal better. It depends on the individual and what challenges and/or goals they choose.

It would of course be easiest, just to send them out for HT.
 
O.K. Stacy,... but easier doesn't always equal better. It depends on the individual and what challenges and/or goals they choose.

It would of course be easiest, just to send them out for HT.

Tai Goo i will make knife no.3 out of 1095 because i curious myself to see how different they are to work with

lol you people are making out like making a knife is easy or something, dosnt matter what steel im using i see nothing easy about it LOL :D
 
Here is a home built forge I made. It's 8" sch 40 steel with 1" Inswool lining, 1" Refractory cement and a 1/4" of IR reflector cement...(similar to ITC-100)....
This picture was when I started the build. I cut it 22" or so, and cut off 2-2" sections from the ends for the doors.
ForgeA.jpg


Here it is running... It uses a water heater blower and a home made burner copied off a few other ones I saw here and elsewhere...

I added a PID and a type K thermocouple and can regulate the temperature from 1,200f to 2,450f with not too much work. I need to work a bit on the adjustments, but had it sitting at around 1489 degrees for almost 15 minutes once...

It cost me around $200 to make as I was able to scrounge the water heater blower, and most of the fittings.

You could do most(all?) carbon steels in a forge like this one.
Picture735.jpg


Hope this helps. This is a more complicated build than you'd need for 1084, but if you want to do higher alloy carbon steels, you'll need the heat control a forge like this allows....

Nice looking forge. Do you stack fire brick into that c-channel?
 
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