Best steel for maintaining the sharpest edge...

Originally posted by db
Mete I don't really know. I had just saw the commercial and really didn't catch everything that was said. The phrase that really got my atention was something like, " Ti. is the sharpest metel known to man.." or something really close to that. Marketing it's a great thing huh?
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Ugh... I just saw that commercial and it does say titanium is the sharpest metal known to man.

My next question is: Is "man" the name of some executive in the Remington Marketing Department and how often does he get out?
 
Personally, I love vg-10 and aus-8. VG-10 takes a sweet edge and holds is a long time.... Aus-8 takes an edge about the same, but can be touched up with sandpaper and a strop to return the edge.

Go grab a spydie calypso jr lightweight in vg-10 and tell me it's not the sharpest you've used.
 
Well, my personal favorite is 52100, and specificly the steel I'm getting from Rex Walther. When I do everything right, or as close as I can without realy screwing up!, I get a blade with wotze like pattern and is extreamly easy to sharpen, and cutts for a long time. One thing I've noticed is that 52100 will still cut for a long time after its dull and my other steels have quit completly. Only thing is is that it'll rust is not some care taken. Not a problem for me, even in salt water.

Haven't tried the particle stainless, but soon as I use up my scant suply of ATS34 I'll give some SV30 a try.

From what I understand the finner the grain the finner the posible edge. Provided the heat treat is correct.

As was said, bad steel with a good heat treat will bead good steel with a bad heat treat.
 
Me still be more novice (the more I learn the more novice I become). But,....

On this subject I'd like to add to steel, heat treat, edge geometry, is how it is sharpened. You can have two identical knives, that are just as sharp (however you measure it), same edge angle; but the one sharpened better will hold its edge longer.


Will RE S30V - I test with a horse hair paint brush. For some reason I can get S30V to bite much easier than just about any other steel I sharpen. It just seems sharper. Haven't done 'formal' tests, but just about any edge angle with S30V with a little buffing and bingo that steel bites. Couldn't tell you why.

Steve
 
Certainly when comapring simple carbon steels like 1095 / O-1 vs. simple stainless like 440C and ATS-34. For some reason, the carbon steels seem to still "cut" better even when they are supposed to already "dull" eg.- got some flat spots on the edge / can't shave any more.

I don't know if it my own imagination or whether there is merit to this observation. Will 52100 also noted that. I can't explain it, and I also don't know if the newer steels like S30V will feel different.

I'd also like to add that different steels have a certain "feel" about they way they cut, all things being equal. Eg.- I find that O-1, D-2, 440C, RWL-34 all cut with a different "quality." One is not necessarily better than the other, just different, and I can see how this might suits different tastes and methods of using a knife.

I'm not sure if all this is getting too subjective and vague, but something I've noticed over a while. Jason.
 
A concise explaination as to why fine grained steels hold and edge longer and are easier to resharpen: http://www.cryopro.com/what.htm

This lends real creadance to Will52100's heat treat process since he states he gets a long lasting and easily resharpened edge. He's hitting something right in refinning grain structure.

I have noticed this same thing with some high Rockwell ATS-34 blades of mine and now I have a better understanding as to why they can be so hard yet so easy to resharpen.

RL
 
Cowry-Y is the best blade steel I have seen at holding a super keen edge the longest. I can also get it sharper than anything else.I was given a few coupons of it to try a couple years ago and just pushed it aside untill a few months ago when I decided to give it a try . Now I am actively trying to find a source for it as I am very impressed with this material. The steels I usually use are 440-C,BG-42 and S30V which are all great choices so I am not doing a commercial for cowry Y. I just say it as I see it .
 
Roger , lots of misinformation on that website. Cryo does not reduce grain size...... The CPM steels do have an advantage in ease of sharpening because of the smaller sized carbides and their more uniform distribution. So far I am very happy with my S30V blade and I get the idea from this forum that more custom makers are using this steel.
 
Yes Mete, you had explained before to me that cryo does not refine grain size and I had not forgotten that. What I had taken out of that page is an explaination of why a less course grain is more edge retentive and easier to sharpen.

RL
 
My personal opinion on this issue would be VG-10 as heat treated and ground by Spyderco's Seki maker. My first user/beater in this super steel was a serrated Calypso Jr that takes (and holds) a screaming sharp edge with just a few strokes on the corners of the white stones. I really believe that Spyderco has nailed it with this stuff. I have a Blue Chinese Lum that could probably cut a doctor's scalpel in half, then shave the bacteria off the handles. ;)

A lot of their domestic knives feature S30V, which is pretty tasty as well. However it just doesn't seem to take the same freaky initial edge that VG-10 does.

EDITED TO ADD: Upon re-reading your post, I see you asked for the opinions of the experts. I certainly don't fall into that category. Just a happy Spyderco customer. :)
 
Harry, I haven't tried VG-10 but I have no idea what the cobalt does in that steel. The prime use for cobalt in tool steels is for hot hardness. VG-10 is the only knife steel that uses a significant amount of cobalt.
 
Well, my first choice is S90V. My second choice is both S30V and BG42, because I think the BG42 gets ever-so-slightly sharper initially, but S30V wins out in the edge holding portion of the question.
 
I feel strongly that how you sharpen the knife can be a big factor. I don't mean geometry, or merely whether it is sharp or not, but the impact of different methods on different steels. It's fair bet that a lot of knifemakers sharpen in a maner that most users don't, for instance on a belt sander. What makes a good using blade is influenced by what kind of sharpening technology you have at home. It can be anything from a fairly unimportant factor, to a quite important factor.

Every knifemaker would agree I imagine that different knives have different cutting abilities. The same is true of stones. Every knifemaker would probably agree edge geometry and the materials being cut mater, it's the same with sharpeners.

Overall everything counts in getting a sharp edge, and then everything counts in how you use it and how long it intrinsicaly lasts. Your mileage is going vary.
 
According to the Spyderco steel chart on the '01 dealer's catalog, cobalt does basically two things:

1. Increases strength and hardness and permits quenching in higher temperatures.
2. Intensifies the individual effects of other elements in more complex steels.

Just a guess, but maybe #2 is the reason for VG-10's high cobalt content and an insight as to why it seems to work so well.
 
no holds barred L605 cannot be beat. tough, hard, tensile strength, etc. Hastelloy and Inconel come in 2nd and 3rd. these have elevated amounts of Tungsten. we make blades out of these for Industrial uses; cardboard slitters, food processing, medical, etc. They take a terrible toll on the cutting tools, but will outlast anything else out there so far.
 
Originally posted by toolie
no holds barred L605 cannot be beat. tough, hard, tensile strength, etc. Hastelloy and Inconel come in 2nd and 3rd. these have elevated amounts of Tungsten. we make blades out of these for Industrial uses; cardboard slitters, food processing, medical, etc. They take a terrible toll on the cutting tools, but will outlast anything else out there so far.
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If you are making blades out of Hastelloy and Inconel, I can only assume that you are using those blades in very corrosive environments, as those alloys (I'm familiar with Hastelloy C-276, C-22, and B, along with various Inconel's and Incolloys)are typically used in highly corrosive environments.

Might try Stellite 6K also... it's extremely corrosion resistant in all but a few normally encountered materials (e.g. don't use Stellite if materials contain amines) but more wear resistant than Hastelloys and Inconels in general.

Certain Inconel's are used in high temp environs (hydrocarbon flare tips, incinerator injection nozzles) but not for anything like cutting (where the high speed steels excel).

Unless there are Hastelloys and Inconels that exceed Rc40, I'd guess Stellite would outpace them. L605 might fall into the Stellite range. Unsure.

See this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=280357
 
yes, these are used in salt water and related environments, as well as Medical. I was also very surprised at how corrosive fruit juice is, as well as sugar and food products. We make mixers for Juice companies that need replacing every 60 days or so, the acid/sugar combination in the juice.
To date, L6 is still the best material we have machined for cutting or slicing, incredibly tough and ability to harden and hold the edge.
 
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