Best Supplied Air Breathing Rig

Fiddleback

Fiddleback

Knifemaker
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Oct 19, 2005
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I'm looking at upgrading out 3M 6000 face masks with something supplied air. What do you guys use, and is it worth it. I have to buy 5 of them! Ouch!
 
3M Versaflo TR-300

I work at a composites shop and we use them for everything including grinding carbon fiber and kevlar. So, definitely worth it in a production style environment. But they are by no means cheap.
 
Man, that is prohibitive. Is there anything cheaper? What do you use for hearing protection with that? Those little squeeze in the ear things hurt my ears so I use muff style ear protection.
 
They can be configured with different head gear and we chose a helmet style with muffs attached that kind of flip down over your ears. And yeah, the cost really is prohibitive. But, I can honestly say that after using them around carbon fiber fine particulates it's something I would totally trust my lungs to. Here's a pic of one of ours.

1mF1fvw.jpg
 
Consider providing the air supply from one source, and pugging in the hoods where you are working. Running a 2-3" PVC manifold pipe with fittings for the hoses may allow you to just unplug from one place and plug in at another. Run the air supply about 6.5' high ( just high enough to allow reaching up and connecting/disconnecting) and let the air lines hang down. A 8-10' umbilicus is all you would need.
You can buy the hoods/facemasks without an air supply as needed. One air supply with filtration can be located outside the dusty part of the shop and supply all the hoods needed. This is the normal system for many places like paint shops.

For the few times you need more mobility, get one portable belt-pack air supply.
 
Now we're talking. What do you use to pump the air through the system?
 
Fiddleback said:
Now we're talking. What do you use to pump the air through the system?
Click to expand...

The system like Stacy is talking about probably wont work with your standard air compressor.

Piston type compressors all use oil and that vaporized oil mist in your lungs will kill you.

A separate oil free compressor is needed for that, probably a pancake diaphragm style.






You can add on belt packs from 3m that convert your masks with behind the back filter, fan and hoses
They do use rechargeable batteries and I hate how they may run out, or lose charge life as they age.
 
12345678910 said:
The system like Stacy is talking about probably wont work with your standard air compressor.

Piston type compressors all use oil and that vaporized oil mist in your lungs will kill you.

A separate oil free compressor is needed for that, probably a pancake diaphragm style.






You can add on belt packs from 3m that convert your masks with behind the back filter, fan and hoses
They do use rechargeable batteries and I hate how they may run out, or lose charge life as they age.
Click to expand...

The battery packs we use have held on for almost a year now and stay charged through an 8 hour work day.
 
Understand that the following response is a bit off the wall and DOESN"T solve Fiddleback's need for 5 respirator sets.

I have sleep apnea (had it for a long time). I use a CPAP (Continuous Positive Airway Pressure) machine when I sleep at night. I'm on my third one of these since I was diagnosed. Each new machine has gotten more sophisticated and quieter (my wife thanks Respironics).

These machines (about the size of shoebox btw with, in this case, an 8' hose) use very comfortable masks with great headgear, hepa filters (multiple in this application, in the machine and another downstream on the hose. Belt and suspenders for almost no $) and are humidified. The pressure on these is programmable also. Do you see where I'm going here? No more sneezing from allergic reactions to dust, no more nasty snot and nosebleeds for days.

I use one of my older CPAPs in the shop when I need REALLY clean air. Understand that I already have an expensive air cleaner hanging from the ceiling and a decent, if not world-class, dust collector in my garage shop.

This solution, using a machine (okay a durable, if obsolete, medical device/appliance) I had sitting on a shelf solved a health issue for me in the shop and continued to be useful beyond its sell by date.

Used, reconditioned CPAPs are available out there and they're pretty cheap, nothing like the $2K+ new ones.

Just a thought...................

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
The air supply is squirrel cage blower type with a filter. They are readily available from places like ebay for supplying air to paint spray booth hoods. You can also build one pretty cheaply yourself. Just make sure there is lots of air flow capability. 3" manifold pipe is best because it does not cause much pressure drop. The drops can be 1".

This link will give you some ideas what works.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...rator+hood+with+air+supply&_sacat=0&_from=R40
 
Ha! I have a squirrel cage blower from my old days with a charcoal forge. I'm getting ideas. This won't help for jobs where you move around much though. But for grinding...
 
You can move around a lot on an umbilicus. A 10' hose will allow roaming around between 100 and 200 square feet with ease ( depending on where the connection port is in that area).

The blower has to have enough volume and to work. What is needed is air flow more than pressure. I would use a good size squirrel cage with a 1HP motor for a shop feed. VS is also something you will want. Put the control box somewhere convenient in the shop so you can turn the blower on and off as well as increase/decrease the air flow as needed.

What I don't like about many cheaper units sold is that they use what appears to be a vacuum cleaner motor. It makes a lot of noise, and the high pitched whine carries down the air feed line. A squirrel cage is much quieter.

Hoses vary, too. I see small air hoses used, but these require higher pressure for the air volume to be delivered. Hoses around 1" work far better. The flexible small vacuum type hoses work excellent, as they are light weight and flex. The second plus for these type hoses is that they come with ends made to push on and pull off a slightly tapered tube. They come in lengths up to 20'. Simple PVC parts and valves will make the air manifold.

Another good reason for this system is you are bringing in fresh, clean, outside air. A simple HEPA filter is all that you need on the intake.
 
bladsmth said:
You can move around a lot on an umbilicus. A 10' hose will allow roaming around between 100 and 200 square feet with ease ( depending on where the connection port is in that area).

The blower has to have enough volume and to work. What is needed is air flow more than pressure. I would use a good size squirrel cage with a 1HP motor for a shop feed. VS is also something you will want. Put the control box somewhere convenient in the shop so you can turn the blower on and off as well as increase/decrease the air flow as needed.

What I don't like about many cheaper units sold is that they use what appears to be a vacuum cleaner motor. It makes a lot of noise, and the high pitched whine carries down the air feed line. A squirrel cage is much quieter.

Hoses vary, too. I see small air hoses used, but these require higher pressure for the air volume to be delivered. Hoses around 1" work far better. The flexible small vacuum type hoses work excellent, as they are light weight and flex. The second plus for these type hoses is that they come with ends made to push on and pull off a slightly tapered tube. They come in lengths up to 20'. Simple PVC parts and valves will make the air manifold.

Another good reason for this system is you are bringing in fresh, clean, outside air. A simple HEPA filter is all that you need on the intake.
Click to expand...

I think you are on to something here! I need a good solution but am just thinking about running a line outside my shop for the clean air... that being said you bring up a valuable point that the line must be big enough so you don't have to have it pressurized. Do you have any suggestions for how to convert vacuum hose to be able to "plug in" to a mask? they do make this which is compatible w/ 40mm threads on a gas mask... ideas?
 
Look at a company called Martech Services. They sell and service grade D breathable air units. They are used more in Body Shops. I would highly recommend the units. They have different units depending on the amount of users.
Good luck.
 
Maybe I am way off topic here but am I the only one who no longer will grind carbon fiber? I make a lot of knives but I don't have to make knives to pay my bills so I just quit using carbon fiber and just say "no" when it is requested. I wear a respirator and have strong fans blowing the dust out when I grind other materials of which 95% are wood. What about the dust in your clothes and the pores of your skin? If I had to strap my old scuba tank to grind some scales I would quit. Besides, the carbon fiber dust seems to get in every microscopic crevice in the shop including my machinery and never really goes away after cleaning. I realize that I will take some criticism here because so many nice knives are being made with G-10 and Micarta, and some new synthetic materials that some say are just as bad but carbon fiber is the worst thing to grind from my experience. Larry
 
Yea, CF is rare here. I can't see how it makes the knife better enough to use it.
 
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