Best Survival knife under $30.00??? Maybe.

[22-rimfire]

What is the difference between a question designed to learn or help others versus one designed to make yourself feel smart or make somebody else look bad? I think we are seeing a little to much of the 2nd in this thread. Many of you probably have more different knives and more experience "bushcrafting" than either me or the OP. But, I think the knowledge could be shared in a better way.

Threads designed to make you look smart versus ones designed to illicit opinions based on other people's experience.... Good point and one that many should keep in mind. I honestly prefer the second type. We get all kinds of people with varying experience levels and budgets in terms of choosing the next knife. I have yet to find a knife that is the perfect knife. I am always looking at the next one and thinking ....maybe I'll give that one a try. The Kabar Becker BK-15 was one such knife for me as it just didn't jump out at me and say.... buy me, you're going to love it. I suspect this is why the knife is being discontinued by Kabar. I have bought other Beckers thinking that they would be quite useful for my needs and always keep going back to that 4-6" knife as my standard. I even like the chunky ones like the BK-2, but I just never want to take it out and use it over other knives. I have a number of 1/4" bar steel fixed blade knives and for the most part, my experience is the same, they stay at home and I just fondle them from time to time.

In this thread, the budget figure is the deciding factor which pushes recommendations toward the lower end of the knife scale. But, many find these knives quite useful and knives like anything else is an experience thing, personal preference, and your willingness to spend the money. I know I have "wasted" a lot of money on knives that I will never use and will eventually probably just go to the landfill. I believe the OP mentioned a Schrade (current production) and I have read that some folks really find them useful for woods duty even though they tend to be under $50. I might even buy one. You can find some very capable Scharde USA knives for under $50 at knife shows, flea markets, and pawn shops and I do occasionally visit all of these venues for knives. I was on a Schrade USA quest early this year and picked up a number, but could never bring myself to buy a Sharpfinger even though people love them for hunting tasks but not so much for general woods craft. My Schrade USA interest is primarily in the big folders.

To the OP, I think you already know what you like, but are trying other knives out within certain budgetary limits. I think that's a great thing. Not everyone is willing to spend the money for a new Bark River knife regardless of how purty they are.

 

[Amos Iron Wolf]

Okay, I have several Mora and a Glock 81 Field Knife. The Glock 81 is close to the last knife I would actually take to the woods for a camping or a survival knife. Sorry, but I have other sharpened pry bars I would prefer over it. It took a lot of sharpening and I was never happy with the edge. Oh it's sharp, but I sharpen on a guided system (KME) and have ceramic, diamond, and Chosera waterstones, plus four different strops with 4, 1.5, 0.5, and 0.1 micron CBN emulsions and can actually use them. I have very sharp knives. I just do not like the way the Glock sharpens up. Hard to put into words, but I just don't care for it.

As for the Mora. After testing cutting on wood and various things I do the same thing I see the guys on YouTube who are actually out in the woods doing their videos do. I add a slightly fatter bevel at the edge to avoid chipping. I'd take one more if restricted to a single knife, and take two for the costs AND the weight of the Glock field knife to the woods and be happy.

Even Nessmuk carried his "Trinity" of edges. A folding pocket knife, a fixed blade in the 4-5" range, and a small axe. This from a fellow who ventured deep afield at a time when just getting to the start point could be an adventure.

If you think a Mora won't handle some batoning then check out these videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ZZj-5A9u0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYC9xrOsQj0

I tried the Cody technique with my Mora Clipper, but I had to do it at a shoulder high angle and leaning to get to the branch. So not as clean a cut, but done quickly with the rocking technique.



I also just ordered a Hultafors Plumber's Knife to toss in the saddlebag on the motorcycle as it's stainless. http://www.hultafors.com/products/cutting/knives/craftsmans-knives/plumbers-knife-vvs/

Hultafors makes what some think of as a Mora improved. Even though Hultafors has also been around a good while themselves. Here is a series by a fellow doing a use type destruction test with a Hultafors HVK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m1EjwdKpx8&list=PL18A9A3E8E0797D01

Personally, I don't get the obsession with batoning. When camping before and without an axe or a simple folding saw, or even with, I'd just gather and break the smaller stuff. That being up to anything you can break stepping on with it against a rock or log or sticking in the fork of a tree and popping. You should never break sticks over your knee as it can cause injury. Not a good thing out in the brush. For large hunks of wood to burn you just set the tips into the fire and drag/shove the log into the fire to feed it as it goes.

The time and calories spent cutting and/or sawing that could have been just as easily and more quickly broken, or just shoved into the fire is better saved and if need be expended then expend those calories and time on more useful tasks. In a survival situation saving calories and time on tasks are critical. In camping I'd rather be sitting by the fire or watching the stars than putting extra time and calories into fancy cutting wood.

Try skinning a deer or even a squirrel with a Glock field knife or any long, thick knife. Or just use it around camp for kitchen tasks if you're actually using whole foods like carrots, potatoes, meat, and cooking it instead of just opening a packet and dumping in some hot water. You quickly find that a smaller, thinner knife is a good thing to have.

I used this Queen Folding Hunter in D2 on a (friend's) deer. Warning: meat and bloody knife shot. It worked just fine, quite well in fact. As would be expected of a knife designed and made for woodmen and for hunting.



On the second deer which was mine, I used a Colt CT608 carbon steel Trapper that I had about $15 in. SMKW owns the brand and set product standards for this made in China knife. Carbon steel blades with titanium coatings and G10 scales. As much as I love the folding hunter pattern, I found the full sized trapper to be just the right size for skinning and cutting up the deer. That even included cutting in and around joints to separate them. Mostly I used the spey blade, both for unzipping the deer and for separating skin and meat sections.

This pic shows the Colt Trapper when I was test cutting on wood in the backyard. I test cut notching and shaving wood, then back to 550 cord, jute twine, and rolled denim to see how it held up. Then I adjust my edges to fit the intended tasks, but able to hold up if pushed harder.



If you really think about the tasks a knife gets (really) used for the most in a camping and in a survival situation it's cutting. Okay, chopping veggies maybe too. You are going to need to cut and scrape more stuff by far than you are going to be cutting up and splitting cords of wood. The Mora and similar can be used for downing a few things and splitting a few more if you use your head and have some actual technique. Plus, they just make darn good cutting tools for all the things you will be cutting.

If you really anticipate needing to actually cut up and process large piles of wood then take an axe or tomahawk. A basic one, not the fancy tactical crap. Trying to make a knife serve as a heavy duty axe and a knife is usually pretty poor thinking and planning.

One of the few exceptions I've experienced is the Skrama MkII Bush Blade. A most excellent bush tool that both chops, slices, and amazingly for it's size is balanced and made so that you can do some detail work with it. I tested one for the guy who decided to start importing and selling them in the U.S.. This guy has quite a resume of being in deep, dangerous places on foreign soil as well as been a guide and outfitter in the mountains of Montana where he still lives. It's surpassed my simple tomahawk as my favorite for a toss on a pack tool. Except my tomahawk was $25 at the time I got it and running around $35 now. The Skrama will run you very close to $200. A far distance from $30 and under.

I would feel quite comfortable and secure carrying a Mora and my SAK Farmer alone. Toss in the Tomahawk since we're keeping things on the low, and that's cruising in style and luxury. Of the more than one hundred knives I have to include quite a few fixed blades, the Glock is about the last knife I would take with me. I'd sharpen up and pack one of the "Sportsman" pattern vintage blades well before the Glock and I picked those up for around $9 each on the bay. Then again, I'd leave my Bowies and other big knives behind as well.

Just show that I do actually have a Glock 81 here is a photo of it in the KME.



And posing for a paracord wrapped shot.

 

[Inazone]

I think it's helpful to state that a particular knife is "good" for a specific purpose at a specific price point, rather than saying it is the "best" and opening yourself up to a barrage of differing opinions, namely from those with more experience with other knives or the purposes for which they're used.

For what it's worth, nearly every review I've read on the Glock knives is virtually the same, stating that they are durable and reliable, once you establish a proper cutting edge rather than that of a butter knife. I considered buying one myself, but after seeing one up close in a store, decided that I didn't need a longer knife for outdoor use unless it was a machete. On the other hand, after letting my wife borrow my Mora Companion for a camping trip with her friends and getting it back rusty and chipped, I gave a bit more thought to not only the need for a task-specific knife, but also how best to get the most out of it. That means both maintaining it (kept sharp, clean and oiled) and avoiding unnecessary abuse. Personally, I own much nicer knives than those I use on a regular basis, but the attributes that make them nicer don't necessarily make them any better for getting the job done. That being the case, I'll use the knife that I don't mind beating up a bit. If it eventually wears out simply because the steel or handle material wasn't up to the task, then that's a lesson learned.

Incidentally, I do think that some of the Schrade knives are suited to a wide range of uses. I have one of the very first "Extreme Survival" models (BT01) and the Chinese version of my old USA X-Timer (XT2B) that are both well-built, with good fit and finish far beyond what the sub-$30 price tags would suggest. The drawback is that both are made of unstated mystery steel. While I will happily use either of them for hiking, camping or general outdoor work, I would have some reservations about trusting them in a true survival scenario if I had another appropriate knife of a proven steel.

 

[22-rimfire]

Amos, I used a Remington Camillus Trapper for years as my dominant hunting knife. Works very well; just clean it when you're done. The full sized trapper pattern is my favorite. The larger Buck 110 or my preference, the Schrade USA clones work very well too and as you said, that is precisely what they are designed for. I find fixed blade to be very cool and I certainly respect the added strength that they have relative to a folder, but frankly most of my cutting is done with a folder. I carry a fixed blade a lot in the woods, but the folder gets the first use every single time.

 

[Forgedfixedblade]

What type of steel do they use on the Glock? Just curious because I have never had one and I tend to lean towards stainless living close to the coast. I personally feel that a camp and survival knife should be the same, I personally carry 2 fixed blades in the bush every time I go because there is no do all camp/survival knife, one in my pack and one on my side. One for small detail work and culinary tasks and one for battoning, chopping or just plain smashing through saplings. This has been my go to combo, a modified Ontario Machete, cut down to an 8 inch blade 12" overall that cuts like no bodies business and a Real Steel 440c bushcraft knife.

 

[dogstar]

One question for many of the other people posting in this thread. What is the difference between a question designed to learn or help others versus one designed to make yourself feel smart or make somebody else look bad? I think we are seeing a little to much of the 2nd in this thread. Many of you probably have more different knives and more experience "bushcrafting" than either me or the OP. But, I think the knowledge could be shared in a better way.

My response to the OP was based on my interpretation of his intention with "hard use" testing of a Mora. I took it to mean that he was going to break it just to prove his point, that the Glock knife is better. If that was not the OP's intent, then I apologize for the tone of my response. I will try not to jump to conclusions in the future. Thanks.

 

[Gaston444]

I have one of the very first "Extreme Survival" models (BT01) and the Chinese version of my old USA X-Timer (XT2B) that are both well-built, with good fit and finish far beyond what the sub-$30 price tags would suggest. The drawback is that both are made of unstated mystery steel. While I will happily use either of them for hiking, camping or general outdoor work, I would have some reservations about trusting them in a true survival scenario if I had another appropriate knife of a proven steel.

I can assure you that whatever "mystery steel" is in those Schrades, it will beat the edge holding of CR's $1000 knives made in his "soft" A-2... I have this from personal observation on my -still favourite- CR Jereboam knife, and from multiple other sources on CR's A-2 range, some vs the Schrades in question... In fact, many cheap knives in 440-type stainless will blow away in edge-holding CR's A-2, and many of the other current "super steels". And I still would trust my CR for survival, with a proper diamond sharpener available in the field, since the softer steel was a deliberate choice to make it easier to sharpen (despite little to no gain in brittleness apparently, but that's no big deal if the blade has no serrations). It sort of works, even though I am not that happy to see my $1000 knife blown away in edge holding performance by $40 1980s Parkers... It is the way it is...

Gaston Marty

 

[pinnah]

I'm beginning to think that any thread that has the word "survival" in the title is doomed from the start.

There's no beginning of agreement on what the word means and becomes something of a Rorschach test for various apocalyptic fantasies.

 

[Amos Iron Wolf]

Yep. I pretty much consider a "survival" knife as much the same as a decent camp/bushcrafting knife. A cutting tool that takes over for the folder or is a general use knife.

Considering that General Chuck Yeager carried a basic Western fixed blade much like the Case Finn all through WWII and had it when he was shot down that should tell you something about what a real hard user considered a hard use knife.

Interesting reading in this thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/731127-Chuck-Yeager-s-knife

This is the pic of that knife on display taken from this thread.

Read some of our own Jackknife's tales over in the Traditional forum and you will see that those old backwoods boys and baymen he grew up around considered a Case Finn type about as much knife as they needed in a life of hard use in the backwoods and bays.

Survival is working smart and carry lean. Not brute force and carry half the house on you. For the weight and usability you could carry two or three Mora types or similar. If you break a blade on one, in which case you really are probably doing something stupid with it, or lose one then you have an extra or two.

A Mora or similar fixed blade and a Coughlan or similar folding saw will be very light and take up minimal space and provide you with a LOT of cutting power. Reminds me, I can't seem to find my folding saw and I need to quit saying I'll replace it and do so.

Survival and bushcraft is just today's marketing name for old school camping in the woods way back in the day before all the fancy "must have" stuff hit the markets. Read through some of Bradford Angier's books, things by and about Nessmuk, Kephart, and others who spent a lot of time in the deep woods and pretty much lived with what they carried for long stretches far from towns and villages.

 

[Gaston444]

A minimum requirement, it would seem to me, would be a knife that can cut enough wood to make a real fire, and hack materials of enough length for a raised bedding area that keeps your body heat from being sucked into the ground... Maybe a tent's flimsy floor, and a rolled mattress, if you have all that, can keep the wetness of the ground at bay (if rain pours don't ruin your day)... But then again, maybe you won't have that, or it won't conveniently be the middle of July... From what I've seen in the woods, ground that is flat enough to sleep on is often the lowest and wettest... In any case, in the woods I know, just flat ground is itself in short supply...

Sure you can roam around to gather wood by hand, but frankly I'd rather carry something that can actually do the job...

Gaston

 

[leghog]

OK. You brought up the point and you asked for questions:

How is the Glock 78 better for camping than the Bear Grylls?

I think that's a fair question.

I carried a Glock 81 in my ruck for twenty years. Three of those throughout the bush in Indochina and the S. Pacific. No way in hell would I have carried the Bear Grylls (if it had even been available). It likely wouldn't have survived.

To the OP, get what YOU want. The Glock will certainly last you years. And it is not a combat knife as has been suggested here in this thread. It is a field knife.

But as for recommendation. I'd recommend the Mora Companion Heavy Duty.

That said, these days the knife I use more than any other afield is a Victorinox Farmer.

Remember if you find yourself in a survival situation, you'll only have with you what you had moments before and it's a hassle to go about daily like carrying what you need to survive. That's why we don't live and go about our lives that way. So pick your EDC wisely.

 

[Mr.Conservative]

Anything made by condor

 

[B34NS]

But how can you survive if you don't baton something? How do you baton with one of those?

D'OH! I knew i missed something! :foot:

 

[Czechmate]

Gaston, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I can't say I agree with you, other than that a Mora will break if you mercilessly baton it. I would much prefer an 8$ Mora 511 than the Schrade you posted, for more reasons than I care to state. If the Schrade works for you, great. I also disagree there is some "price of admission" for the woods. You can do plenty with a used Old Hickory found at the thrift store for 50 cents. On bladeforums, bushcraft seems to be about the knife, not a person's knowledge, skill, and attitude. It is the other way around.

Well put. :thumbup:

I have a Mora 2000 that has been pushed hard without issue. Plus, the sandvik steel requires next to zero maintenance in my experience to keep corrosion as bay. Try leaving one of those carbon blades wet in the sheath overnight on an outing...


Not as wimpy as some may think:

 

[B34NS]

If it was truly for survival then why limit yourself to $30.00?

Whether a knife can cut wood for under $30 is what it more sounds like.