Best way to clean files

I'm a newcomer to this forum as well. As such, I try to refrain from forcing my opinions on anyone. I also try to be respectful and open minded. Some things that I have learned along my journey may not be set in stone. There may be extenuating circumstances. I may even be just totally dead ass wrong. When I seem to be the only one with a particular viewpoint, I start looking at me, trying to figure out why I have the convictions that I do, and why my view doesn't line up. When I disagree, I try to do so politely and I try to leave room for different interpretations. There is generally some middle ground if one chooses to give a little.

It sounds to me like you responded to this thread with the intention of teaching all us dummies a truth so profound that it needs no further discussion, and you do so in such a manner that it seems you expect we should all accept this as the absolute word from on high and anoint you "file king" or whatever you would like us to call you.

You think my analogy is absurd, yet you would propose one about a 60 year old piece of sandpaper? At least mine seems relevant to a point of topic. Maybe someone else can judge the pertinence.

As for me, I will bow out, knowing that sometimes people can agree to disagree.
 
A good point was brought up by David about metals that create pinnings that are too tough for wood and it is something I should have mentioned in the beginning. Wood is simply too soft to remove every pinning that gets stuck in your file. The next simple remedy is using brass or aluminum. If you re-load ammo, a brass shell casing flattened on the end is another simple/cheap/expedient file cleaner. An aluminum bar/strip is great for getting aluminum out even though aluminum is notorious for galling so badly that a sharp pick is the only thing that will get a stubborn pinning out (always use chalk!). Brass and aluminum conform to the tooth pattern of the file in the same way wood does. The point is you want to use the softest material to clean your file because a good file is not cheap and there’s no sense putting extra wear on it by carding it. And, I know perfectly well the correct direction to use a card, but that has nothing to do with this discussion because even using it “correctly” the SIDES of the wire in a card will STILL be stroking against the cutting edge as it gets in the gullet to remove the pinnings. That's my point from the very beginning.

Here's another analogy for the thick types: Go find some steel that is approximately 50Rc. Now, whip out your favorite EDC blade and start trying to slice through it repeatedly, using the same pressure, speed and number of strokes you would use while carding your file. How's that hair poppin' edge now?! ..yeah, that's what I thought. :rolleyes: Now here's the bone of contention that someone should bring up/point out. Is is still "sharp" ? ..well, that depends on what you call sharp, doesn't it? If you only need to cut some cheese I'm sure it's perfectly adequate. :p


I guess some people's idea of “damage” is different than mine. It’s really wear we’re talking about and depending on your use and application it might not even make a difference to you but once again, the OP asked for the "BEST way to clean files".


Since I’m going on about this more than I ever thought I would, I learned about files and how to use them from a Master Tool and Die maker from Germany. Using a file in this capacity is no trivial matter and anyone who is old to enough to remember apprenticeships and working under the ones from Germany/Europe, you don’t dare question, much less argue, about these things. I suppose that still effects how I am today.



Grizz,
Like I said, I don't wish to refute everything you said because it is counterproductive at this point. But, I would like to simply point out that IMO, a file that is USED lasting 60 years is about as likely as sandpaper (that is used!) lasting that long. The length of time given as an example is just hyperbole and meaningless in this context because everyone reading this knows that files and sandpaper WEAR OUT when they are used frequently. I am not doubting Kelbro owning a file for that long or that it could still be sharp, only that it couldn't possibly be used hard/much if it is indeed still "sharp" after so many years. The two are mutually exclusive.
 
Using a file card produces no more wear on the file than taking an extra couple of strokes on steel would. The card is used to remove debris from the teeth. At some point, your file will become dull (probably from filing, not carding.) It's time to get a new one then.
 
Ditch_Digger said:
A good point was brought up by David about metals that create pinnings that are too tough for wood and it is something I should have mentioned in the beginning. Wood is simply too soft to remove every pinning that gets stuck in your file. The next simple remedy is using brass or aluminum. If you re-load ammo, a brass shell casing flattened on the end is another simple/cheap/expedient file cleaner. An aluminum bar/strip is great for getting aluminum out even though aluminum is notorious for galling so badly that a sharp pick is the only thing that will get a stubborn pinning out (always use chalk!). Brass and aluminum conform to the tooth pattern of the file in the same way wood does. The point is you want to use the softest material to clean your file because a good file is not cheap and there’s no sense putting extra wear on it by carding it. And, I know perfectly well the correct direction to use a card, but that has nothing to do with this discussion because even using it “correctly” the SIDES of the wire in a card will STILL be stroking against the cutting edge as it gets in the gullet to remove the pinnings. That's my point from the very beginning.

Here's another analogy for the thick types: Go find some steel that is approximately 50Rc. Now, whip out your favorite EDC blade and start trying to slice through it repeatedly, using the same pressure, speed and number of strokes you would use while carding your file. How's that hair poppin' edge now?! ..yeah, that's what I thought. :rolleyes: Now here's the bone of contention that someone should bring up/point out. Is is still "sharp" ? ..well, that depends on what you call sharp, doesn't it? If you only need to cut some cheese I'm sure it's perfectly adequate. :p


I guess some people's idea of “damage” is different than mine. It’s really wear we’re talking about and depending on your use and application it might not even make a difference to you but once again, the OP asked for the "BEST way to clean files".


Since I’m going on about this more than I ever thought I would, I learned about files and how to use them from a Master Tool and Die maker from Germany. Using a file in this capacity is no trivial matter and anyone who is old to enough to remember apprenticeships and working under the ones from Germany/Europe, you don’t dare question, much less argue, about these things. I suppose that still effects how I am today.



Grizz,
Like I said, I don't wish to refute everything you said because it is counterproductive at this point. But, I would like to simply point out that IMO, a file that is USED lasting 60 years is about as likely as sandpaper (that is used!) lasting that long. The length of time given as an example is just hyperbole and meaningless in this context because everyone reading this knows that files and sandpaper WEAR OUT when they are used frequently. I am not doubting Kelbro owning a file for that long or that it could still be sharp, only that it couldn't possibly be used hard/much if it is indeed still "sharp" after so many years. The two are mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...

I didn't want to get involved in your petty little argument before, but I just can't help myself anymore. You're not the only one that's had to make a 123 block with a handfile; I've done that and several more with hand files. My shop instructor was also an old German machinist, though he worked for the German army before coming to the states and getting a job with NASA. You're not the only one in the world to have done something similar, and you're far from the first person I've heard the "file cards dull files" theory from.

Bottom line is that our experience seems quite similar, and when my old German instructor told us about file cards dulling files, he also spent time to mention that proper technique and moderate use are the most important parts. Since you want to use analogies ( by the way the only thick person here is you ), you can relate it to steeling a knife. It takes the proper technique, and only a few strokes; anything more or less than that and you're going to damage your edge, or in this case your file--though I seriously doubt a file card could ever dull a file to the extent a steel could a knife edge. At the end of the day, even if a file-card presents some form of wear, the only times it's going to make a noticeable difference is if you're carding way too much.

In any case, it doesn't matter... If you want to carry on pushing pins out with soft materials that's your prerogative. What is "best" is simply an opinion, and the idea that file cards only dull a file quickly so the user has to buy another is just plain misinformation. If you want to vehemently defend it and resort to insulting others it really makes no difference; anecdote can't stand in the face of experience, and as far as you being a new comer and people resisting your ideas... Just get over yourself, man. I've never seen someone so arrogant to actually suggest that if someone doesn't dull their file with a filecard then they must not know what a sharp file is. Seriously, you might want to analyze who is really getting their panties in a bunch about having their ideas challenged... Couldn't be the guy that's written 3 incredibly arrogant diatribes on the matter, eh?

So, let's back away from all this egotistical, "I'm right you're wrong," bullshit and talk about what's "best". Let's pretend that file cards will dull your files.

Would you rather spend your time pushing out pesky pins with small pieces of soft material, over and over? Or would you rather use some chalk, do a couple of passes with the file card and get back to work with your dull file... That remarkably still cuts metal!

I don't know about anyone else in this thread but I know which option I see as the best.
 
Wow. All I've got to say is Thank You to the gentlemen who express themselves humbly for how much they actually know, and have politely taught me a thing or two about using files.
I can appreciate the heck out of that.

DD, maybe you've learned something from this. I should certainly hope so. I've made some mistakes in the past, mainly egotistically driven, but I'm pretty sure I'm a better forumite now.
 
I have been a machinist for about 20 years. I had to go through the same apprenticeship tests and trials mentioned here, my German was named Maximillian, and he still has his accent to this day. I have used many many a file.

All that being said, I clean my files with a card. Every single time I use them. Nearly all of them are still plenty sharp enough to file a straight part with no scratches; when they're not, it is simply time to replace them. Files are consumable items, like emery cloth and even toolbits. Whether a file is dulled or isn't by a file card seems a trivial thing to argue about. I would tend to say that it might slighty dull a new file, but no more than using the file as it is intended to be used, IMO.

The comparison to a knife edge is fairly invalid, since a knife edge is almost unfailingly going to be sharpened to a much more acute angle than a file's teeth. It should be fairly apparent that the more obtuse the angle, the more abuse the edge will take.
 
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