Best way to spend my money? (Stones?)

S

Soilarch

Joined
Oct 15, 2007
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297
I'm going plunge into the "next" level.

What I have now is the Spyderco SharpMaker, Lanksy kit, and an assortment of sandpaper and foam pads. I'm still using old, smooth belts, and paper for strops.

I've looked at the DMTs...want to go continous surfaces.
I've looked at the Shapton Glassstones
I've looked at "regular" Norton stones
I've looked and buying good leather scraps (4-6oz, correct?)

Problem is I know from tinkering around on a Arkansas tri-hone thingy and the sandpaper that I want a working surface at least the size of the sandpaper sheets (9x3.5) so I'm reluctant to go to the 8" sizes.

A LOT of my sharpening involved resetting the bevels...so I need a course/fast cutting setup. My buddies are constantly bringing me knives...I have an illness and can rarely refuse if it has "decent" steel in the blade.

XCourse, fine, XFine on DMT? Will I regret trying to get away with only two?
Shaptons in a 220, 500,1000....or just 500,1000?
Good 'regular' stones don't seem to be that much cheaper...and if I go that route I still have to buy something to lap them with. (I know a sidewalk will work, but I'm want F-L-A-T if I'm spending this kind of money...not eye-ball 'level'.)

Surely someone here has been through this. Dropping around $200 to sharpen knives, axes, razors is not something I can easily do so I would really really appreciate advise.
 
I got a set of the 8x3 DMT's for christmas including the XX-fine, of all the stones I have used over the years these are the best. I got the X-coarse, fine, X-fine and XX-fine, very good start IMO now I just need the coarse and XX-coarse to complete the set. I've been there done that with almost every sharpener out there, I wish I would have switched sooner. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks, Just how aggressive is the the X-coarse? I know the grit size (60micron...about 250?) but the only thing I have to compare that to is 220grit sandpaper. I have either a course or x-coarse lansky diamond stone but again, hard to compare a .5x4" stone's cutting characteristic to a 8x3".

If you had to work with two...and had the spyderco ceramics....which two?

Does anyone regret going the duosharp route instead diasharp route?
 
IMO you can't compare diamonds to sandpaper, the X-coarse cuts like 80 grit paper on 440A with all steels. The difference is that the diamonds don't slow down and wear out like the sandpaper will. I can't explain it but diamond stones and polish paste just remove steel better, if that makes any sence. The edges I am getting now are far better with a sharpness that will give you chills.

I wish they made diamond sandpaper.

What ceramics do you have?
 
Just the ceramic rods that come with the Spyderco Sharpmaker (medium and fine).

I've heard exactly what you're describing between diamonds vs. sandpaper...and it makes sense.

Will I have to "pull" the edge along a X-course stone or will I still be able to "push" the edge? (I call stropping "pulling" the edge.)

P.S. can't sleep tonight...FYI...lol
 
DMT to reset the bevels, then Glasstone or Spyderco benchstone to polish, just a splash of water on each stone and you can sharpen away.
 
knifenut1013 said:
I wish they made diamond sandpaper.
Click to expand...

They do. Look for lapping films for integrated circuit polishing. The lab used 9 micron diamond on Mylar on lapping wheels. Metallographic polishing supplies can be your friend, or enemy when nothing else is good enough any more. Also see the diamond based lapping compounds, down to 1 micron, any maybe finer. You have to use a diamond point wheel dresser on a grinding wheel, or accidentally grind the diamond part of a concrete cutting saw blade to appreciate how much harder diamond is than basically anything else. Just remember the Mohs hardness scale is closer to the Richter scale in terms of how the numbers relate to each other. Diamond at a Mohs hardness of 10 is an order of magnitude harder, or more, than a Mohs hardness of 9. Diamonds will cut with very light pressure, and steel basically doesnt phase them in terms of wear. They can still be fractured with excess pressure, and torn out of DMT and EZE-Lap stones for the same reason.
 
How much pressure is too much?

It seem like you would really need to apply some force to do that.

Got a link for the lapping film?
 
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Search for metallography supplies and click on Beuhler. Their site has diamond papers under the grinding section from 45 to 6 microns. They also have the MetaDi lapping compounds used by Verhoeven in his sharpening publication to achieve the 0.3 micron wide edges on the AEB-L stainless blades. As a reference, scalpels are considered adequate at 1 micron, and hair shaving starts somewhere in the 5-8 micron range, I think. I dont have the info in front of me, so dont quote me.
 
Good info thanks, I have been switching over to diamond products in the past year and the results have been amazing. So amazing I just cut my self :eek:... I just finished polishing my S90 millie, my finger slipped and touched the edge and now I am bleeding through the bandaid.

Kinda makes me wonder what width my edges are.
 
Its pretty frightening that he was able to get edge widths that match a Gillette blade, but with edge angles of 20-27 degrees per side. His experiment on buffing wheels after grinding on the Truhone machine give an edge width of about 1-2 microns. Many people finish edges this way, but he was measuring edge widths half that or less after finishing on the Tormek leather wheel covered with diamond paste. Of course, there are way to many variables to say that all buffing wheel finishes wind up the same. I'd like to switch to diamond stones and a loaded strop, but those things are expensive. Still, nothing removes a burr without flopping it back and forth like diamond. The supplies from Buelher are geared toward the lapping wheels/plates used for sample prep, so they will most likely be of inconvenient shapes for sharpening. The ones I saw were typically round, without psa backing. They were held to the plate with a ring around the outside.
 
I use a DMT coarse to reset all of my edges (and i reset alot of them). Next, I go with a spyderso med. alumina ceramic stone, and then I finish with a fine Spyderco alumina ceramic stone. This is the best combo I'v ever used. I'm really impressed with the Spyderco and DMT stones. In my opinion, this combo will give you the best bang for your buck.
 
smitty0331 said:
I use a DMT coarse to reset all of my edges (and i reset alot of them). Next, I go with a spyderso med. alumina ceramic stone, and then I finish with a fine Spyderco alumina ceramic stone. This is the best combo I'v ever used. I'm really impressed with the Spyderco and DMT stones. In my opinion, this combo will give you the best bang for your buck.
Click to expand...

This was what I used for several years, except I used an x-course DMT. Most often the DMT was used to thin the edge so the angle was well under the Sharpmaker 30 or 40 setting, so the Sharpmaker was used to set a microbevel and maintain the edge. I eventually added a leather strop charged with chromium oxide. You can easily sharpen anything with this combo.
 
If you already have a sharpmaker you can probably manage with a DMT coarse before using the medium (brown) rods on the sharpmaker. I use a double-sided DMT XC/F diasharp before going to the sharpmaker. The XC is pretty handy for rebeveling edges but it's leaves pretty sharp scratches so I use the fine diamonds a bit before going to the sharpmaker. btw: I use leading edge strokes with the XC (what you refer to as a pushing the edge) although it does feel a little too coarse for that until you break in the surface.

I can't really comment on the DMT XXC (just got mine) but if you do a lot of rebeveling or restoring badly damaged edges maybe consider a DMT XXC then Coarse before the sharpmaker if you are trying to minimize your costs.

Soilarch said:
Thanks, Just how aggressive is the the X-coarse? I know the grit size (60micron...about 250?) but the only thing I have to compare that to is 220grit sandpaper. I have either a course or x-coarse lansky diamond stone but again, hard to compare a .5x4" stone's cutting characteristic to a 8x3".

If you had to work with two...and had the spyderco ceramics....which two?

Does anyone regret going the duosharp route instead diasharp route?
Click to expand...
 
Like others said above, a DMT benchstone followed by a SharpMaker works great. I would suggest XXC or at least XC. The other (finer grit) DMT's are good too, but merely duplicate what a SharpMaker does well by itself. The hair splitting below was accomplished with a Buck Mayo sharpened on a XXC DMT followed by a SharpMaker. No other device or strop was needed.

15qc1ox.jpg

33vj4pl.jpg
 
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By the time you add up the cost of DMT diamond plates, and waterstones, and whatever else you need, you will spend more money than the cost of a basic Edge-Pro Apex.

Why not just get the EP and be done with it? :confused:
 
Two Words, One link:

Edge Pro

www.edgeproinc.com

I used to be able to get hair splitting sharpness with ease, but never got the kinds of edges this thing gives me. My cutting bevels are now literally mirror polished and can easilly whittle hairs from my head....ive never seen edges on knives like this thing throws down.
 
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