Bevel Forging Dies...PICS

Greg Covington

Greg Covington

Joined
Oct 28, 1999
Messages
1,563
Here are some pics of the bevel dies that I made last night with the advice of Ron Claiborne.

They are mild steel...welded to plates that I preground to fit the press. I ground the die faces at just over 1/8" deep on the edge of the top and bottom die and carried the bevel on out to about 2.25" wide. I left the other side of the die flat for a reason which I will later describe.

First two pics of the dies:

die1.jpg


die2.jpg


I tested the dies with a 5/16" thick bar of 5160. Rather than forge in the tip I just chop sawed it for a quick test. With the bar good and hot I started the bevel just about the cutting edge and worked from tip to shoulder...maybe just 1/"4 up the edge and worked up from there to about 3/4 of the way up the bevel with subsequent heats. By "subsequent heats" I mean like 3 or 4....this is how fast it put the bevels in! Of course the tip will raise up but I gave it a few whacks with my wooden "schwocker" on the nose and then a few on the side to straighten it. I also found that the tip will drop a bit too by placing the tip onto the flat area of the dies and pressing in the distal taper.

Of course I could have taken the blade out to a thinner edge profile with the dies but this was just a test. Also...the edge will benefit in its geometry with some hand hammering too. But it made VERY short work in forging the blade.

Blade pics:

die3.jpg


die4.jpg


Lessons learned so far:

Would like to have used thinner stock for the bottom die but it perfectly matched my upper piece and saved me alot of work. Thinner material would have heated up quicker in use....the big die saps heat from the blade at a fast rate.

Heat a piece of scrap steel up and place it in the dies well before forging the blade to preheat them.

Keep the blade HOT HOT HOT....

I suspect that these might be an advantage in bevel forging Damascus blades because of the possible reduction in chance that you may shear a weld.

And last.. ALWAY WEAR SAFETY GLASSES around the grinder. When I was grinding the die faces the flourescent light above the grinder got to flickering so I reached up to tap it without looking....the 3 foot bulb fell out onto the top of the running KMG's belt and literally exploded into a million shards.....I felt them hit my safety glasses like a shotgun blast. :eek:
 
That's cheatin :)

My shoulder should would appreciate a press setup like that . Very nice Greg. Be sure and show some finished knives from the press.
 
Greg, I've been thinking alot about dies for forging to shape since I the press came. I did pour a small pad for the press and its setting now where its going to stay. I haven't tried this yet with the dies but in my head it makes alot of sense. Instead on having the dies running at 90 degrees I'm thinking that I could run them at 45. That way I could see more of what is happening with the steel plus having them at 45 would make them even more versettle. Does that make sense to you?
 
Ray....I could see where that would be somewhat of an advantage.....

However, I just now forged out a blade from that 5160/L6 billet that I made last week and really, I could see things going on in there just fine.

Also, Ron told me to offset the contact point of the dies just a bit from the center of the ram.....maybe Ron will jump on here and tell exactly why...I know why it is but I cannot convey it properly without showing it :confused:

Amazing how fast I forged that billet to a blade....close to a nine incher and looks like it will finish with a 5/16" spine. I refined the edge bevel with a light hammer and straightened and dropped the tip with my wood bat. Then cut the billet about 3/4" behind the ricasso...flipped it around in the forge and used the flat die area to forge the tang. It is cooling right now and here in a bit I will true it up a bit on the grinder and take a pic.

Seems like I felt better about edge forging on Damascus with this since the steel didnt get shocked as much.

I might add that I forged in the tip and then tapered it distally after I "pressed" in the bevels.

Mark: Cheatin'?.....hehehe.....my arm feels pretty good....and I am much cooler too.....so, cheatin'?...why yes! :D
 
Greg, Having the dies on a 45 does not mean working off center. Now that I have the press I need to learn how to forge all over again. I'm also thinking about a sound effect so when I pull the lever it sounds like a hammer.
 
Ray....I am not sure you understood what I meant, Ron says to put the contact point off center on purpose.....hopefully he'll come on here and explain that.

Here is the 114 layer 5160/L6 blade that I just forged this morning. Close to 8.5" with a 5/16" spine. I ground a bit on the flats to show how the bevels are set. I was going to take an edge pic to show the bevel but the camera battery crapped out.....well, looks like the 5160 test blade above.....but the distal tapers are all there. Shouldnt take much to grind.

die5.jpg
 
Pretty cool. I always wondered if you could forge a blade on a press...I guess you can :).

Can you forge all the way to the spine?
 
Here's a shot of Red. I don't think Ron knew he gave me overhead die storage......
 

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LongRifle said:
Pretty cool. I always wondered if you could forge a blade on a press...I guess you can :).

Can you forge all the way to the spine?
Click to expand...

i don't see why not.....I plan on trying it though.
 
If you think about how hot metal moves, and how different hammer faces effect the movement... I think a much better die is one that simply pulls the edge down.

I made a set like I'm talking about, and it looks like a drawing die, but turned 90 degrees so it moves the edge out laterally, instead of out linearly.

A flat face moves the steel out in all directions.

Still cool though :D

I'm such a hammer head though, I like to forge to shape by hand. About the only thing I consinstently use the press for on forging to shape is knocking the point down and starting the distal taper.

Different strokes and all that :)

-Nick-
 
Elmo might be o no if one of those dies fall off you scare me Ray :D :D
Looks good setting in your shop . 45 degree dies work good the first machines had them on then but changed to get bigger dies in a given working range and still have things centered

Bowie
 
Question:
If the die face was wider, or deeper. Could you do a flat taper all the way across the width of the blade?

Ive made several sets of fullering dies, from 1/4" up to 3" boy are they handy!! Works very well for integral type blades!

I can say that I have forged a blade to 85% on my "Main Squeeze"

Sure does make the back and arm feel a lot better the next day too!

Boy Ray, your press looks awfully familiar!! (think ours are close to the same color!!)

God Bless
Mike
 
NickWheeler said:
If you think about how hot metal moves, and how different hammer faces effect the movement... I think a much better die is one that simply pulls the edge down.

I made a set like I'm talking about, and it looks like a drawing die, but turned 90 degrees so it moves the edge out laterally, instead of out linearly.

-Nick-
Click to expand...

Nick...if I understand this you are saying that the dies you made are like rounded draw dies facing the opposite direction. If so, I can see where it would pull the steel out real fast....but did the bevel have (for lack of a better term) divots, in it? Or was the die face broad enough that it left it relativley flat?
 
Diamond G Knives said:
Question:
If the die face was wider, or deeper. Could you do a flat taper all the way across the width of the blade?

Mike
Click to expand...

I don't really know.....

With this Damascus blade I wanted to make sure that I started at the tip and worked my way back to the shoulder in small increments so the press didnt lift any welds on the tip end...like it can do when forming a billet. Each subsequent pass then is the same except I went further up the edge till it looked good. I liek doing it this way since I can see exactly when things are going and get good control over the blade.

I felt like I hit the fast forward button when I got out the hammer and refined the edge!
 
Greg-


That's it exactly. :)

They leave a little bit of divot, but a few quick blows with a square faced hammer and they're all out. :)


I'm thinking the ideal set-up would be to have both dies. The ones like I made for quickly pulling the edge out, and a set just like yours to make sure they bevels are flat and even. Hmmm.... may have to get to cutting/welding :D


-Nick-
 
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