$*% !#@ Bevels!

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dzlvs8

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Jun 13, 2013
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So on my first three knives I have free handed my grinds on a cheap ol craftsman 1 x 42 that runs at mach 1. My first and third blades that i made were kinda ruined but still used because it took so long to get the grind "right" (or good enough) that I took too much stock off. I thought I was cured of this problem after my 2nd knife. So maybe I kinda rushed my 3rd today. I ended up pretty much ruining it.

I sat down and decided to look up maybe some tips on free hand grinding on youtube and couldn't find anything. I assumed that free handing was done by a good amount of people. Is that not the case? The reason I am concerned is because I would like to get better and stay free hand, but right now it's so easy to mess up. Will that always be the case? I hate screwing up knives.

Here's today pile of crap. Turned it into a recurve, it's twice as small as I wanted it, and it still doesn't look very good. :grumpy:

Sorry I am so wordy but here is the point of it all. Are there any free handers out there? Got any tips. My problem is keeping the knife at the same angle. Also, I found that the only way I could get the tip sharpened was by angling it in (vertically) towards the grinder. Therefore, I had to change my angle when going across...which didn't make things any easier. I noticed that i could cheat a little bit by running a final pass on the belt above the platen. Is this common for some or ok? I assume it is not. Also, is it possible to get picture perfect grinds consistently when free handing? I like to sharpen on free hand on a stone and even though it took a while I am very happy I learned to sharpen well this way. I would like to keep with free handing if possible.

Need help. Hate ruining knives. I don't work with a jig that much better if at all better.


YEAH, check out that sharpened ricasso :grumpy: :grumpy: :grumpy:
12229857405_95989e8381_b.jpg
 
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I made a jig that actually works pretty well, but lately I been trying freehand myself. I suck at it as well. I do real good on my strong side and real bad on my weak.
I am going to try the bubble jig. my eyes or something just don't work right when going left. im hoping the bubble will help me hold the angle better, and train me to freehand.

im sure some of the pros will chime in soon with some better info.
 
Yeah, I'm almost there...and then I want to tweak one last bit of the grind and next thing you know, I'm correcting errors and for another 50 passes on the grinder.
 
Salem Straub said:
Your grinding doesn't look THAT bad.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link to the tips. They are VERY helpful. I'm thinking that some of my problem had to do with using an extremely worn out 120 grit belt. ....EXTREMELY worn out. My first passes were really good, but it just seemed to keep getting harder and harder. Also, from reading your tips, my problem isn't keeping a consistent angle during the stroke as much as it is FINDING the correct angle when I first lay the knife on the grinder. Since I had to change my angle for some reason when doing the tip, it through everything out of whack. When I started grinding the tip (and changing the angle) finding the angle near the ricasso when starting a new stroke got worse and worse.

Yeah, it doesn't look that bad if it was intended to be a recurve. I was 95% happy with the grind about 3 minutes into starting the grind. ...Then 45 later I was still trying to get everything perfect. At some point I just started making it work, with no turning back.

In the pic I posted, I quickly trimmed the handles and ricasso down to try and match the blade that had become so small, height wise.
 
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I'll give you the same amount of advice as I've seen you listen to before....









...and that is how you are to grind freehand.

Chris
 
On mistake I often make is trying to go too fast. I used apply too much pressure, make too many passes before dipping, and generally try to get through each step in one session. On the last few blades I went the other direction. I took my time, and used a much lighter touch. I changed the belt out whenever it seemed to be spent, and dipped the blade after EVERY pass.

Even doing that I managed to screw up one of the blades.

It's like they always say here (and elsewhere)... practice, practice, practice.

Oh, and if you weren't aware, I do everything freehand. I don't own any jigs, not even a tooling arm for the grinder. That's one of the reasons I "cheat" by cleaning up my grinding work with files and sandpaper.
 
I'm suggesting you get yourself a bunch of mild steel from the hardware store band a bunch of new belts, then go to it. The belts don't last long . In fact they are often far more expensive than most beginners think unless you use them far beyond what you should. Frank
 
Salolan said:
I'll give you the same amount of advice as I've seen you listen to before....









...and that is how you are to grind freehand.

Chris
Click to expand...


I "gave" the same advice yesterday. I looked at the post, started typing, then realized how it would be received, and deleted my post.
 
If you can, get with a local maker. Usually when I show someone, they've been standing at the grinder all wrong. Seeing it imediately corrects this. They usually have the grinder mounted too high, and grind with the knife held away from their body. Mount the grinder so that when you hold the knife to grind it, your hands are right on your beer belly. IMO, thats what God gave us beer bellys for. Then keep your arms close to your body and get up close to that grinder when you're working. I go through a hooded sweatshirt a winter because the steel dust melts the front. I'm right up on the grinder.

Dull belts will cause pushing hard AND more/quicker heat buildup. Both things ruin grinds.
 
If I can toss a few cent's worth of insight your way- as a new/newish/raw wanna-bemaker I had to learn the stance and how to hold my elbows tighter into my own body. I will definitely second Fiddlebacks advice- once you bring the position of the knife central to your core movement and eliminate excess "Wobble" from extended arms or wide stance... you will see a definite upswing!

And 2 thumbs up on the cheap belts advice!

KDuncan
 
You just can't read or YouTube 'feel.'

You can get pointers, but practice practice practice is the only way to get proficient. Fred's bubble jig is like practicing with a spare set of eyes watching your angles.

In competitive shooting and defensive tactics the idiom is that it takes 3000 repetitions for something to become muscle memory. The same is true for your grinding strokes.
 
I've used all sorts of jigs (homemade, bubble jig, etc), and they have their place... but I prefer to freehand for similar reasons as Salem. Feels a lot more rewarding in the end.

Only thing I can add to what others are saying (practice, stance, fresh belts, etc): make a sturdier platen that is actually flat. The platens on small grinders that aren't meant for knifemaking are notoriously flimsy. Adding some reinforcement and adding a pyroceramic glass face to it works well if you don't want to fabricate a new one entirely. If your platen has give to it or isn't flat, you're going to have trouble getting your flat grinds flat and looking clean.

Mike
 
after reading through every one advice to you im going to pass on the few words give to me by a well respected knife maker, take your time get to understand your grinder, don't give up, mistakes will happen take each one and learn from it. with ever mistake come a new way to do some thing. finding out how to fix your mistakes is a challenge that ever knife maker is tasked with. so keep your head up don't get to frustrated and through hard work and repetition you will get to where you want to be with your grinds
 
Thanks for the advice. It is all very helpful. I coincidentally went to an unexpectedly awesome knife show the other day (Wolverine Knife Collectors Club) and there were LOTS of knife makers there that were willing to help. I have since turned the knife pictured in the original post into a tiny stick full of bevels. I'm starting to get a better feel for it and figuring out more about what I have to do....and yes a lot of what I have learned is stuff that you can't put into words.

I like the idea of getting some mild steel and practicing. I don't like the idea of learning on the fly with blades that already have a lot of time into them!
 
First thing I would do is get a 2x6 glass p laten and slap in on your grinder. Second get a bubble jig from Fred Rowe. He has multiple informative videos on how to use it. Third is take your time. Fourth call the guys at tru-grit they will set you up with some belts.

Show us some pictures of the results after you do those for 4 tasks.
 
One thing that helped me was getting some scrap wood and going through the steps of cutting it out, profiling it, then grinding the bevels. It really helped me to find out how to hold and move the blade to get the desired effect.

Have you thought about not using the grinder and filing your bevels? I have some coarse files that can take off metal fairly quickly. Yes, it does take more time, but you have more control. My experience is that a grinder does make the task go faster, but I can also make mistakes faster:D.

Ric
 
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