Beyond the Woodlore....

schmittie said:
Now I'm confused too. :p Are you referring to the woodlore design or just a scandi in general?
Click to expand...

The Woodlore design with the scandi grind. I'm confusing myself - now I'm getting to see Woodlore inspired knives with full-flats and beveled edges. This just never stops. That's why I'm asking myself if the headache of choosing a woodlore-style knife with scandi worth it... considering the fact I have my Peacemaker already.
 
There will always be a " Oooo! Shiny!" in the knife world. Regardless of glowing reviews the basics of a modern outdoors knife are all the same.
 
Sufler said:
The Woodlore design with the scandi grind. I'm confusing myself - now I'm getting to see Woodlore inspired knives with full-flats and beveled edges. This just never stops. That's why I'm asking myself if the headache of choosing a woodlore-style knife with scandi worth it... considering the fact I have my Peacemaker already.
Click to expand...

From what I've seen, the term "bushcraft" can mean a whole spectrum of different things to different people, so I take the notion of a "bushcraft knife" with a grain of salt.

Forget about pre-concieved notions of "bushcraft," and just ask yourself - what specific tasks do you want/plan to DO with the knife? Is it just for smaller woodworking tasks? Does it need to be able to do bigger wood tasks, like batoning larger pieces? Do you plan to also dress game with it? Let your intended purpose dictate your design choices, not someone else's idea of "bushcraft." Just my .02...
 
Smithhammer said:
From what I've seen, the term "bushcraft" can mean a whole spectrum of different things to different people, so I take the notion of a "bushcraft knife" with a grain of salt.

Forget about pre-concieved notions of "bushcraft," and just ask yourself - what specific tasks do you want/plan to DO with the knife? Is it just for smaller woodworking tasks? Does it need to be able to do bigger wood tasks, like batoning larger pieces? Do you plan to also dress game with it? Let your intended purpose dictate your design choices, not someone else's idea of "bushcraft." Just my .02...
Click to expand...

Learning to carve on wood for traps, utensils/tools, fire starting, accessories at camp, etc... drove me to heavily consider the scandi grind since it's such a performer on wood in a Woodlore-style knife. I like the basic, clean, traditional lines of the Woodlore. I thought batoning would already be putting this edge too much at risk of chipping/rolling. My Peacemaker is my hiking blade for it's size, weight, and strength not to mention blade performance - I think I have everything I already need in it and could learn how to process wood with it better.
 
Right on. While it's always tempting to think you "need" something new (and I'm as guilty as anyone), I think it's a great thing when you realize that you probably already have it.

At least for now...:D
 
Sufler said:
Learning to carve on wood for traps, utensils/tools, fire starting, accessories at camp, etc... drove me to heavily consider the scandi grind since it's such a performer on wood in a Woodlore-style knife. I like the basic, clean, traditional lines of the Woodlore. I thought batoning would already be putting this edge too much at risk of chipping/rolling. My Peacemaker is my hiking blade for it's size, weight, and strength not to mention blade performance - I think I have everything I already need in it and could learn how to process wood with it better.
Click to expand...

I for one much prefer a convex grind over a scandi for every single task including wood working. For some a scandi may be better but for others like myself (there a ton who prefer convex to scandi) we will take a convex over a scandi any day.
 
I just bought the Condor Bushcraft Basic 5 inch for about 25 dollars. It came out of the box shaving sharp, and after a few minutes on the strop is just scary sharp. As the walnut scales were very slightly crude, I spent an hour finish sanding and staining them to my liking. I stripped the black coating off the blade, did a patina job on it, and now its a really nice looking, sharp knife. The sheath was of good quality too. With the 5 inch blade, batoning is no problem and it will slice food, make feather sticks for a fire, and pretty much do any chore I ask of it on a camping trip or hike. I like it so much I'm going to purchase the Condor Kephart next. It's a very close copy of Horace Kephart's knife. With the 1075 high carbon steel blade like the Bushcraft Basic, it should be a winner. Worth looking in to for the quality/price point/versatility. Best of luck in your quest.
 
The first is the Fiddleback Forge version of Joe Flowers' Terrasaur in natural canvas micarta with orange liners. Flowers was influenced in design by the popular Skookum Bush Tool.

The second is AA Forge bushcrafter with desert ironwood handles. This model is much more 'traditional.'

Both knives are full tang O1 steel. Both are outstanding.

If you are curious about a scandi, I say get one, or several. ;) You never know how you'll like one until you try. I have as several different models, both production and custom made. Personally, I really like them but not for a 'do it all' knife. They have their place.
 
I'm looking at the condor bushcraft style knives but from what I've been reading they're not a 100% scandi grind. They have a micro bevel. I'm in the exact same boat as you right now. I want a full tang scandi without having to pay an arm and a leg.
 
Sufler said:
Learning to carve on wood for traps, utensils/tools, fire starting, accessories at camp, etc... drove me to heavily consider the scandi grind since it's such a performer on wood in a Woodlore-style knife. I like the basic, clean, traditional lines of the Woodlore. I thought batoning would already be putting this edge too much at risk of chipping/rolling. My Peacemaker is my hiking blade for it's size, weight, and strength not to mention blade performance - I think I have everything I already need in it and could learn how to process wood with it better.
Click to expand...

For what its worth I think you are on the right track with this. Either that or when it is really called for augment it with a proper wood carving tool.

As I see it this Woodlore / Bushcrafter fad is every bit as arbitrarily contrived as the “one Tarzan survival knife”, or when folks rock up looking for a knife that is “between 4-6”, excellent for processing game and cutting root vegetables, and must be brilliant at chopping”. At what point to you stop trading superiority at a single purpose for versatility in an “all in one”? And when does an all in one jobbie offer disappointing performance at most things?

My contention is that the line is usually pretty easy to see in the case of the behemoth Tarzan all in one jobs but somehow these Bushcrafter things seemed to have slipped under the radar. I think it's usually only in the case of the “hook knife” or spoon / bowl carving knife do the limitations become really really vivid. “Yes, it is an all in one wood processing tool, but we don't use it for carving those, we use these...”. I think for a better understanding one does better by looking at wood workers actually use, and it is never ever something that looks like a Woodlore or any of the other Neo-Bushcraft offerings. I certainly see a lot of slipjoints used in addition to tiny fixed blades with ferocious wood carving power, but never great big all in one offerings. Those Woodlores may well be good for carving a notch in a stick, but really, how lumpen and crude is that. That's not a w00t worthy of an tinternet photo or writing a book about. A guy with some basic wood carving ability and the right tool can carve you a chess piece that fits in that crude notch, and the knife he uses surely must be more interesting.

On that, I think even if you added something really simple like the small, thin, and pretty hard [61-62 RC] Mora SKU 122 to your favourite utility knife you'd have a huge advantage over any all in one solution like a Woodlore.
 
Sufler said:
Learning to carve on wood for traps, utensils/tools, fire starting, accessories at camp, etc... drove me to heavily consider the scandi grind since it's such a performer on wood in a Woodlore-style knife. I like the basic, clean, traditional lines of the Woodlore. I thought batoning would already be putting this edge too much at risk of chipping/rolling. My Peacemaker is my hiking blade for it's size, weight, and strength not to mention blade performance - I think I have everything I already need in it and could learn how to process wood with it better.
Click to expand...

PatrickKnight said:
I for one much prefer a convex grind over a scandi for every single task including wood working. For some a scandi may be better but for others like myself (there a ton who prefer convex to scandi) we will take a convex over a scandi any day.
Click to expand...

Regarding chipping and rolling, to some degree, can be helped by moving a convex edge with a more acute apex angle. I do my heavy use knives at 25 degrees for this reason. When pushing them to 20 degrees, I can and have roll an edge. I suppose time will tell if batoning will cause that CPM steel to chip, eh? Till it does, I would run what I brung.

Regarding blade grind (different than edge profile) and wood processing of various types, I find a) that different grinds to better at different things, b) length matters and c) this all intersects with my hiking/camping style.

This is what I use for splitting kindling. It's a modified Schrade H-15 that I got for about $30. It's not scandi. But it has a noticeable sabre grind.

Schrade H-15 Modified by Pinnah, on Flickr

Splits kindling just dandy and the blade (1095 hardened pretty hard) seems to shrug off dents and chips. But, it doesn't do nearly as good at making feather sticks compared to my Opinel N9.


EDC Pair by Pinnah, on Flickr

And of course, the Opinel N9 does a crappy job at whittling compared to my Micra.

For general backpacking/hiking, I carry a Leatherman Squirt PS4 for the pliers and scissors. Keep it in my repair kit or first aid kit. I also carry the Opinel N9 in my pocket. Always with me and doesn't interfere with my pack in any way. It does great for everything short of long batonning sessions (can handle easy stuff occasionally with minimal damage).

The big Schrade only goes if/when I'm planning using the Emberlit stove or otherwise making fire. Stays in the pack along with a Silky Boy saw. Part of the pack weight of the Emberlit, imo. If I'm packing another stove, I don't carry it. It's bad weight. I just rely on the Opinel and Squirt.
 
psychophipps said:
There will always be a " Oooo! Shiny!" in the knife world. Regardless of glowing reviews the basics of a modern outdoors knife are all the same.
Click to expand...

His knife is ridiculously expensive. But that seems to be anything with "woodlore" slapped onto it. Though quality is always impeccable. He uses the knife quite a bit, so I'm sure its what he would see the perfect bushcraft knife to be in much the same way Dave Canterbury would like to see in his (Obviously DC like to see his as more of a standalone option for batoning and ferro rods). But you're right, the basics is generally the same 4-6in, full-tang, usually some sort of drop point, with a quality handle.

I'd love to get my hands on a Woodlore or a Bushcraft knife because I've been a longtime RM fan. But, boy its a big bill pill to swallow for a blade that appears so modest in appearance and construction. IT reminds me much like a Sabenza in that regard. Very few will dispute its build quality and has a great name behind it. But its a very simple blade.
 
To answer your question, the Enzo's are great knives and their O1 is superb. The handle is not the 'woodlore' shape per se, but it's very comfy. I own AA, L. T. Wright, BHK (both of them), Condor, etc., but the Enzo Trapper is one of my favorites.

For really inexpensive, the Mora Robust Companion is hard to beat. You can obtain really good Kydex sheaths for it from e bay. A great knife that you don't have to worry about abusing........
 
Wow that Woodlore knife is a total bummer, C'mon mears...485 quid? Nope.

Old hickory's are great. You can cook with them, work around camp with them, they don't have some inefficient "scandi" aka "british" grind. They'll cost you almost nothing and last forever.
 
The price of a Woodlore is absurd. You're paying for a name.

You can find a Bark River 'Aurora' in A2 for a third the price of a Woodlore, and it's every bit as capable, if not more so.
 
sometimes we over think an issue, until all answers become meaningless. :rolleyes:

There is no substitute for getting off yer butt, and just going afield, and doing something. You are apt to learn a lot more that way, than going round and round on the internet.
 
Sufler said:
As much as I would like to have one of the BF knifemakers make me a (Ray Mears) Woodlore style knife, I'm not ready for it. My skills aren't up-to-par and I'd rather practice and learn with a less expensive/user friendly knife. I know that the go-to bushcraft knife is a Mora Companion. I'm aware of the Condor Bushlore as a great starter knife too. But, are there any other inexpensive knives I am overlooking?

Happy Thanksgiving!

:)
Click to expand...

Maybe consider something from Jeff White. 35 bucks shipped. 1095, convex edge which is easy to get shaving sharp.

 
The Mora Companion wouldn't be as beefy as a the Woodlore I think (I've never seen one in person) so I'd suggest a different Mora, like the Mora Triflex or similar. I believe the Triflex is discontinued so you can just get a plain carbon version like the Bushcraft Black. It's a step up in thickness from the Companion but still performs well.

If you are OK with the Mora Companion's blade thickness, which IMO is not ideal for a field knife, you might want to consider the Mora Orginal Classic #1. It's a definitely prettier than the Companion and a great addition to the collection.

I have a Enzo Trapper and a Spyderco Bushcraft. I've used both a fair amount. I also have a Condor Bushlore which I haven't used. In my experience, the Enzo Trapper has higher edge angles and a thicker point than the Bushcraft, any Mora, and also the Condor Woodlore. So the Trapper is probably tougher but not quite as good of a carver due to its thicker edges. You won't be able to carve as precisely with it IMO. The Spyderco Bushcraft is a VERY nice knife (Taichung's reputation for perfect quality seems to be true) though handle heavy IMO and some might be turned off by the almost glass like smooth handles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top