BF dealers...beware

[Michael Dye]

Hey guys, just a heads up. We are seeing a lot of fraudulent orders coming in from Russia just in the last week or so. Some are from customers that 'were' in good standing. Apparently there is a group that has gained access to US cards. They have the correct card number, exp date, cvv and correct cardholder name, address and zip code.
Just a heads up.
Regards, Mike @ New Graham

 

[madd0c]

So they are paying with a US card and asking for it to be shipped to Russia? That would seem to be enough of a flag right there....does that legitimately happen often?

 

[Wulf]

Wait - am I reading this right? Are these Russian orders are coming in with card information from your existing customers? If so, are you informing your customers when you see these fraudulent orders come in?

 

[Michael Dye]

madd0c..not often, on occasion. These are the easiest to detect before shipment.
wulf...not our customers...random cardholders, and yes, we handle these correctly. We do not keep any of our customers CC info in our computers, so there is no security risk on our end.
This is simply a heads-up for other dealers.
No particular person is at risk.

 

[Temper]

I had a Tatyana this week ask me to ship stuff to Singapore. I dont accept CC as 99.99% here do a bank transfer or COD. I told them I will only accept PP or BT from abroad, after that, no replies.

 

[NGK-Webmaster]

Wait - am I reading this right? Are these Russian orders are coming in with card information from your existing customers? If so, are you informing your customers when you see these fraudulent orders come in?

What Mike is saying is that some good customers who we have shipped to many times have started using stolen cards, these customers are from Russia. So to other dealers beware of even your good customers who are from Russia, they may be setting you up for a stolen card ect.

 

[David1967]

So they are paying with a US card and asking for it to be shipped to Russia?

That is exactly what I do. Except I do not live in Russia (fortunately).

David

 

[gajinoz]

This sort of thing is always a bummer for "international" customers like me who are regular and legitimate buyers. The dealers, with good reason, get very wary of any credit card transactions.

I've found though that I can wire the money via Western Union or even put a $US money order in the mail. Less convenient, costs more and takes longer but at least the dealers get their money before shipping and I don't risk my credit card details being "out there"!

 

[sheltot]

This sort of thing is always a bummer for "international" customers like me who are regular and legitimate buyers. The dealers, with good reason, get very wary of any credit card transactions.

I've found though that I can wire the money via Western Union or even put a $US money order in the mail. Less convenient, costs more and takes longer but at least the dealers get their money before shipping and I don't risk my credit card details being "out there"!

Or you could have a friend here in the States buy it for you and then ship it to Oz. One of the German Benchmade forumites found a knife he wanted on eBay and the seller would not send it to Germany. In this particular case, he bought it and had the seller send it to me and then I posted it to Germany via insured air mail. So, he had to pay a bit more to ship it twice, but he got the knife he was looking for.

 

[Knife Outlet]

The internet could be a terrific vehicle for international sales but, sadly, the crooks have ruined it. We stopped doing international business in 1999. We could double our business very quickly if we resumed it but it's too risky.

Just as common as fraud - even more common - are customers who do a chargeback because a product is tied up in customs for a while and they get nervous. That is just as expensive as fraud. I did an international shipment a while ago to somebody I know in Germany. It was tied up in customs for 9 days. The guy went nearly ballistic. It was all I could do to keep him from doing a chargeback and I know him. It finally arrived but I can imagine what it would be like to do deal with a pile of those every day. Too bad it is the way it is.

To completely prevent hackers from getting credit card numbers, we no longer capture credit card numbers at all so there is nothing to steal. It isn't good enough just to delete them after you're done with them. The hackers will sit there and wait for them real time and will use them within minutes. To be safe, you can't capture the numbers at all.

The problem is that we don't know the CC numbers any more so we can no longer presell products that are any distance out, we can't add to an order without having the customer call and give us the CC number, we can't correct errors we make without doing expensive credits. It's a mess. The thieves have made life difficult for everyone trying to business on the internet. Ironically, it is we sellers who pay for what the credit card thieves do, not the card holders.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Ironically, it is we sellers who pay for what the credit card thieves do, not the card holders.

Your several points are well-taken, but I do not see irony. If you have little control over the problem of credit card identity theft (other than forbearing to deal overseas), the person whose credit card indentity has been stolen has even less ability to prevent the fraud -- typically he or she has none.

I have been in both positions - a seller robbed through credit card fraud and a person whose credit card identity was stolen and fraudulently used (by some mope 2000 miles away). It stinks in either case.

 

[Knife Outlet]

Your several points are well-taken, but I do not see irony. If you have little control over the problem of credit card identity theft (other than forbearing to deal overseas), the person whose credit card indentity has been stolen has even less ability to prevent the fraud -- typically he or she has none.

I have been in both positions - a seller robbed through credit card fraud and a person whose credit card identity was stolen and fraudulently used (by some mope 2000 miles away). It stinks in either case.

Many people think it is the issuing banks who pay for the fraudulent charges since it is they who approve or disapprove the charges. Not so with on line or mail order purchases. The card holder has never had to pay. Cardholders regularly engage in credit card fraud with their very own cards. I've had all kinds of chargebacks from people who I know are not frauds but are the actual card holders. I've even had chargebacks from customers who admit in writing that they received the merchandise. We aren't in the fraud prevention or law enforcement business. We're just trying to get paid for what we ship.