BG42 to S30V. Why? (Different sort of thread.)

fulloflead

fulloflead

Joined
May 3, 2002
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Hi. I SWEAR I did a search for this first but didn't find my answer...

WHY did C.R. switch to S30V from BG42?

Also, what's the difference in terms of:

Brittleness?
i.e. Cutting hard against something hard like slicing through a cardboard box and hitting a marble countertop? Cutting into and prying out pieces of material of hard substences.

Toughness?
I once moves a BIG machine in a printing company that was sitting on metal squares that were sitting on top of linolium tile. The metal tiles were stuck to the linolium tile good from the years. I took out my Sebenza to pry them off, hesitated and then let someone else go get a hammer and chisel who removed them with a couple light taps. I wonder if I could have pried them off with the Sebbie.

Edge rolling?
I often whip out my knives to cut various papers, cardboards and other fiberous materials on a hard surface like countertops, plastic and stainless steel. I often hold my EDC knives like an Exacto knife and use the tip like an Exacto knife to cut the same materials against the same types of surfaces. These practices roll most edges. What differences can I expect from the two different Sebenza steels?

(The above is how I use my knives in my life when not opening packages of other knives.)

I'm have excellent sharpening skills, so I'm not worried about that, but what other differences would there be between the two steels in USE, especially hard use like (or harder than) the conditions listed above?

Thanks. I'm asking because I have the option of buying one or the other at the moment.

.
 
I found that the only difference between BG42 and S30V was that BG42 is harder to sharpen. It might hold it's edge SLIGHTLY longer, but not enough to sacrifice the ease of sharpening that you get with S30V. I'm not saying that S30V is EASY to sharpen, just easier that BG42. I believe (I don't have the info card) that BG42 has a higher hardness rating too. It probably holds up less to impact and would make it more prone to chipping (though I haven't had that problem with either blade steel) I don't intend to test that theory though.
 
I'm a big fan of stropping my knives and I've noticed that S30V doesn't respond well, at all, to stropping. It also doesn't get nearly the fine hair-popping edge that I can achieve with, say, D2 or 134Cm, etc.

I've only owned one BG42 knife - a custom - and didn't keep it long enough to sharpen it, so I don't know about that steel.

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I was also interested in knowing the difference between both steels. I notice that the Spyderco Military comes in both steels and wanted to know the differences before purchasing. I have a bunch of Sebenzas that are S30V and they are very hard to sharpen. I just can imagine the BG42!
 
To sharpen either steel just use diamond. As far as stropping , remember that you don't see highly polished S30V because it's so difficult. It works fine with a diamond produced micro-serration edge.
 
In my experience sharpening my sebenza and 2 mnandis, all in s30v, I find that they get hair popping sharp fairly easily and their ultimate sharpness is just as high as my ZDP-189, BG42 and VG10 knives. Ultimate sharpness for me being that they easily pass the hanging hair test. I use a leather strop with diamond abrasive compound to achieve ultimate sharpness, but the white stones on the sharpmaker work fine to get it hair popping sharp. I'm not saying I'm a better sharpener than you or anything so don't take it that way, but I'm willing to bet if you try again you'll find it will definitely get as sharp as D2 or 154cm.
 
Chris is quite an innovator in the knife industry -- he invented the frame lock, the single-sided folder handle (with the Lock45), the one piece hollowhandle fixed-blade knife, and several innovations in the design and manufacturing process that are not documented but well known amongst makers. Along those same lines, Chris worked with Crucible in the development of S30V. Here's a short summary: http://www.knifeart.com/s3stainnewst.html
 
I had totally forgotten that Chris worked with Crucible to develope S30V.
 
JoHnYKwSt said:
In my experience sharpening my sebenza and 2 mnandis, all in s30v, I find that they get hair popping sharp fairly easily and their ultimate sharpness is just as high as my ZDP-189, BG42 and VG10 knives. Ultimate sharpness for me being that they easily pass the hanging hair test. I use a leather strop with diamond abrasive compound to achieve ultimate sharpness, but the white stones on the sharpmaker work fine to get it hair popping sharp. I'm not saying I'm a better sharpener than you or anything so don't take it that way, but I'm willing to bet if you try again you'll find it will definitely get as sharp as D2 or 154cm.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Maybe I'll start a new strop with diamond compound and try it. What do you use and where do you get it?


TheKnifeCollector said:
I had totally forgotten that Chris worked with Crucible to develope S30V.
Click to expand...


Wow. I did not know that.


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One of the criteria Chris had in developing S30 was that it be easier for knifemakers to work with than some of the other high-end steels. This is good for the knifemaker, but not necessarily for the end user. Obviously, S30 is a very good steel, but I was just wondering whether there was a "spare no expense" steel that was more durable and harder than S30.


JoHnYKwSt, do you use a dry diamond stropping material, or the kind that comes in a syringe? I am a big fan of stropping and am curious what kind of materials and techniques you use.
 
I find that stropping with ultra fine grit wet/dry paper on a mousepad keeps mine pretty sharp along with the sharpmaker.
 
CPM3V, more than twice as tough as S30 at 60 rc. Butt if yo take it up to 61-62 it is still tougher than S30 but will hold an edge better. Because of it strength you can reduce the bevels, and it will get & stay sharper than S30. I do not understand why this steel is not used a lot more, in my opinnon it is by far the best all aroun knife steel. It only has about 7% chrome so it is not stainless, but stain resistant. However I have made a bunch of knifes with this steel and I have not seen it rust or stain yet. It will also polish very well, S30 does not. I still use S30 but most of my knifes are made with CPM3V. Check it out at: http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/ds3Vv5b.pdf?CFID=922873&CFTOKEN=68454155
Leon Pugh
 
Strange thing is though that Reeve switched from BG42 to S30V and there are quite a lot of complaints about this.
His version of the S30V is considered by many as being run too soft and loosing it's edge too quickly.
Many seem to prefer older BG42 versions because of this.

Spyderco on the other hand released a version of it's Military model in BG42 after the S30V models, they must have had their reasons for doing that....
 
The more I think about it and the more posts I read, the less happy I am with the fact that my Sebenza has an S30 blade.

I just think that the Sebenza is one of those knives that should not use a "compromise" steel--whether a compromise for the maker or a compromise for sharpenability.

For me sharpenability is not a problem because I use diamond sharpening tools. My DMT extra-fine stone started off as a 1200 grit stone, but with use it has smoothed down to what I estimate is a 2000-4000 grit stone and has stayed there for many years.

I have seen a few posts claiming that CPM3V is possibly the best steel for a Sebenza-like application. Is there any consensus on this?

If there is dissent, I would like to see that as well.
 
Well, I for one trust Mr. Chris Reeve for his decision in going with S30V. He had a good reson for helping to make it come to fruition, and then use it on his knives!!
 
Every maker has his own pet steel. Mr. Reeve has his in the S30 V which he developed or helped. A lot of makers use this and will until something else comes along, and a few have come like the ZDP189, S3V or what else that others say is better than the S30V. The thing is the S30V might be the best there is but serves the purpose for what it was designed. Only thing I wish Mr. Reeve did was give a couple more blade choices. I would have prefered that.
 
alejandrino said:
Every maker has his own pet steel. Mr. Reeve has his in the S30 V which he developed or helped. A lot of makers use this and will until something else comes along, and a few have come like the ZDP189, S3V or what else that others say is better than the S30V. The thing is the S30V might be the best there is but serves the purpose for what it was designed. Only thing I wish Mr. Reeve did was give a couple more blade choices. I would have prefered that.
Click to expand...

You can say THAT again . . . ;) Just messin' with you, alejandrino.

Every new material option in a manufacturing organization provides complexity, in terms in vendor management, inventory management, processing variation, order complexity, etc. CRK provides blades with A2, S30V, and a variety of damascus -- material variations that all have a specific reason in the marketplace. I'm guessing that increasing the permutations of blade materials at CRK would need to be weighed quite heavily against the increased complexity.
 
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