Bid Retraction, Ethics, Acquiring Buck Items On The Open Market

oregon

oregon

Joined
Jan 12, 2005
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I've been hunting and pecking the open market for a vintage Buck item. I recently blundered into a fellow bidder, from Germany BTW, who retracted his high bid in an auction I was also bidding on. I'd never seen this done before so I was curious about why someone would do this and what the ethics of this maneuver might be.

I checked into this bidder's history and it revealed that he had 48 recent bid retractions and only 61 completed transactions. He bid on every auction with the same item I was in the mkt. for. This smelled like the behavior of a schell. Or is this simply one more tactic employable in successful auction bidding?

The auction site allows it. I talked with a CS rep. and they discussed bid retraction with me. I discussed it with the seller as well.

This is a first blush issue with me so I wondered if it would pass your laugh test. Have you experienced this before? Are ethic even involved?

Thank you for your consideration.

The target, comletes a set for me (this has taken any years to do):

 
Were the bids retracted from the same seller or all different sellers? Sounds fishy to me.............
 
If they were retracted from the same seller or closely related sellers, it would smell like a sock puppet to me. The seller under the sock puppet ID bids up the item, then retracts his bid when the bidding gets up to where he wants it. Accomplishes the same thing as a reserve, but makes it look like other people really want to pay the price so it encourages bidding. I'd call it unethical even if not against the rules, but that's just me.

***edit*** Apologies. Was working on this when you replied to the previous commenter.
 
I asked one seller (I noticed that this bidder was bidding on all auctions being held with the target item in question in them) about this activity and the bidder's bid, on that item, was cancelled.

Apparently, it is allowed if the retracting bidder claims that the bid was a mistake (bid $50 when $5 was the intended bid). But 48 mistakes!

Ed, please turn on your email. Thank you.
 
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It is a problem but no way for them to track your bidding, but still some "schills" around helping buddies!
I have been buying/selling on ebay for 15 years!
 
Sounds like a scam to to me, ethical behavior is important in online auctions. 48 mistakes aren't mistakes.
 
I do know fleabay has tightened their security, and recognizes the "ISP" or "ISO" address(some computer lingo) where a seller cannot bid on an item associated with his "ISP" address. I had contacted fleabay about the same issue about a year ago, and that's what they told me. I still don't believe them, but I'm not computer savvy enough to prove them wrong.
 
dctex99 said:
It is a problem but no way for them to track your bidding, but still some "schills" around helping buddies!
I have been buying/selling on ebay for 15 years!
Click to expand...

I buy and sell using the auction format. As a seller I am inclined to block, and thereby eliminate their participation in any of my auction, any bidder I discover using unethical methods.

mbjannusch said:
Sounds like a scam to to me, ethical behavior is important in online auctions. 48 mistakes aren't mistakes.
Click to expand...

It clearly is their MO (modus operandi, for Craig :)). I hadn't seen this as a tool in anyone's tool bag before. Maybe I hadn't noticed, something new or something done abroad and here now. With Buck the knives brought me here. Buck's ethics, and the members here, inspire me.

Scott Hartman said:
I do know fleabay has tightened their security, and recognizes the "ISP" or "ISO" address(some computer lingo) where a seller cannot bid on an item associated with his "ISP" address. I had contacted fleabay about the same issue about a year ago, and that's what they told me. I still don't believe them, but I'm not computer savvy enough to prove them wrong.
Click to expand...

Fascinating information. Thank you. I'm on trodden ground.
 
It's a maneuver that buyers AND sellers pull for a number of reasons. If you're listing an item that is around $115.00 and the bidder puts in $1,150.00, it's a believable and understandable wrong amount retraction. If someone bids an item pup in early bidding it hurts the seller's auction if they retract. Also, many sellers inflate the prices of other auctions to get more out of their similar item - people think they're really smart when they cross reference other items on Ebay, but many times there referencing a shill listing that is only there so legitimate listings go higher. IF the seller doesn't have a shill listing in place (for example, the Beanie Babies listed for $250,000 are really only worth 25$, but people routinely buy them for $100 because they think they're getting an item worth hundreds of thousands) they can simply bid the price up on someone else's similar item until theirs' sales, and then retract the bid after it sells.

Ebay lets people have multiple accounts as long as they don't have a lot of bad feedback. Also, there are so many people that I'm sure some people bid and retract just because they can. "I don't know if I really want this item, but I'll go ahead and put a placeholder bid and decide later".

It's not ethical, but since it's so common it is often overlooked any more. I don't sell a lot on Ebay anymore, but in the last 10 auctions I am guessing there were retractions on at least 3 of them. I wouldn't ever bid on something unless I wanted it, and I lose more auctions than I win - but whatever number I enter I double check and I make sure I'm willing to pay it..
 
There has always been and will always be bad apples on ebay. A lot, of the new changes that ebay has put in place is to get them more money and not to protect you or I. Here is one of the things that has bugged me for a long time. You see an item you want, you don't want to bid until the last few seconds of the auction, then the auction is just canceled....:eek: what just happened? Well it could be the seller was thinking they were not going to get what they wanted for the item, or they made a side deal and closed the auction. Side deal issue and I, there was some very nice Stag 110's I was going to bid on, then the seller closed the auction a day before the 7 day auction was to end. Two week later one of the ebay dealers put up these same knives at twice the others sellers price. I had not closed out the old auctions and was able to match each of the stag knives by the photo's.....Back door deals. This same ebay dealer also was selling a fake Buck knife until it was pointed out here.

I hate the Back door folks, Shill bid folks, and those who contact you after their auction is over and offer you a second chance at the knife as you were the second highest bidder (more shill work)???? However, I still buy off that site, I just will not buy from the folks I find doing the things we are talking about.
 
Lots of questionable stuff on ebay. I had a bidder get mad at me (who isn't into ebay nor inclined to play games like these) since someone else from Japan retracted a bid. Now, I see that he may have thought I was hustling him.

I think many do it also to see where you are on an item. ie; I know I can get it somewhere for $100 so I throw $100 on the item, you outbid me so I retract and go get it elsewhere.

Many things on ebay may not be "wrong" but they sure aren't right! This sounds like another one of the games that get played on there and is a reason I'm less and less enjoying swimming in that 'bay.
 
Ebay is certainly abused no more than Sears and many stores are with people buying, using, and then returning items, coming in months later when something is on sale and demanding a 79 Cent credit....many people are just jerks and we all pay for it.....
 
John & Ohen, Thank you for stating your experiences honestly here. It has happened to me as well and that's why I don't traffic there. It's just not forthright. Also, these sort of items and others found there could easily be remedied. However, "a lot of the changes e_ _ _ put in place is to get 'Them more money and not to protect You". Still, if 15 business persons wrote in stating they were departing because of shoddy business practices. Nothing would be done. Lets see what would happen if 1500 complained and departed. Other auction site have spun up because of these practices and Are correcting these over-sites.
Oregon, best of luck to you in obtaining your Selector Skinner blade. DM
 
Thank you all for your advice on this stumbling block for me. It really helps to have sage-like feedback. Really does.

I saw an analysis, Seeking Alpha (investment stuff), of the performance of hated companies vs loved companies. Hated ones enjoyed higher earnings and loved ones lower earnings. I suppose this explains why fakes and counterfeits are rampant on the auction site and nothing seems to influence this. Desert Dave you are right, as usual, a boycott en masse would get noticed as soon as the stockholders noticed the diminished profits that is.

ed_bltn you've got mail.
 
I have bought and sold on the bay. As a buyer I always pay immediately after the auction. I have also sold and waited 5 days for payment. What bothers me is that so many sellers and buyers fail to give feedback, even with several requests. The lack of feedback does not help anyone.
Now eBay has a rule that sellers cannot leave any feedback other than positive, even on no pays. All I have seen from that place is a wanton disregard for any ethical business operation, only interested in the all mighty $$$.
 
wow lots o good comments informative also
my experanced in 16 years of ebaying is this

ebay is NOT a legitimate LICENSED AUCTION HOUSE !! NOTHING IS BINDING!
it has to follow no LAWS ! even commie-formya laws
ebay is NOT honorable nor ethical in either buying or selling ...buyer and seller both need to do research...
as in all trans actions it is still let the buyer beware as bragging is ethical! ...

never respond to a 2ed chance offer unless the reserve was not met... other wise it was likely a shrill bid...
me I leave only positive feed back or none never negative and suggest others do the same.. unless the seller truly deserves it
ebay is now a SELLERS site not a buyers site...
the single biggest thing is that ebay has done to make them less of a legit selling site is that they hid all bidders id's!!..
they said this was to protect on scams to buyers on 2ed chance things ...it does not
it hides that a bidder can see if a seller has the same folks biding on his stuff to run it up ..
I used to look at id's and if ones I knew were bidding I did not bid!!
I paid almost 200 for a knife that was bid up by friends of the seller... lesson learned
now they are hidden leading to lots more shrill bidding
also I know of were folks bid jest cause they know some one will out bid them and they jest want to make them pay more then they will
in many cases they will cancel their bid if they seem to be going to or do win

as to side deals -
- the seller can sell at any time to the current high bidder!!
note this is why ebay says to put in your best highest bid first!!
so keep that in mind
and remember this is a unlicensed auction house with no protection to seller or buyer!
so protect your self
remember the game is rigged lol but don't let that keep you from playing, jest be careful.

NOW-
I won a lot of knives by putting in my bid with my max first and letting it ride
my thought is that I want it if it sells for only this much ...
many times I find I am the first place looser ... which I don't mind ..
but again I have seen the same knife for sale again by the same seller!!!
so shrilling is still happening,,,

I get asked many times what is a knife worth .. I always say
a knife is worth what two people agree to exchange for it
trade or money...no more or no less for what IT IS - NOT what a seller says it is
... there is a insurance value and a 'I really NEED CASH now' street sale..
and a big difference between the two!

there is always some one some place willing to pay over what most think some thing is worth and they have their reasons
while many will pay for some thing only if they can make money
ebay will teach you a lot if you watch and learn and I am still learning...
remember
bid only what you are willing to pay!
and
don't bid what you will feel cheated on later about if you see it selling for less...
 
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