Big deal about ZDP-189?

bladeprince

bladeprince

Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
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Can someone please explain to me the big "hoop-la" about ZDP-189? I need a little educating, if you have the time.

Thank much
 
hardheart said:
it's japanese and expensive
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It's also able to be hardned to Rc66 (or there abouts) while maintaining enough toughness. That means that it can take a finer edge without deforming, meaning sharper.

As a comparaison, 440C is normally hardned to 58-60, D2 to 60-61, and S30V to 60-61 as well. 420HC normally gets to around 54-56. It's drastically harder than most cutlery steels commonly used in folders. The only real competitors are some of the high speed tool steels, the SGPS that Fallkniven uses, and some of the exotic japanese steels. It's one HARD steel.
 
This is what I found at WHK site with articles by knife magazines :
http://www.williamhenryknives.com/press-awards/press-home.html

I have 2 WHK with ZDP189 and it is razor sharp and retains an edge well with cardboard boxes :
IMG_1637.jpg

The other one is a Monarch Titan.
Both great sharp light knives.

But I like CRK small sebenza (S30V blade) a lot too.
 
i just received the rockstead which is made of sandwich of z-189 & ats 34 .
very tough & very expensive .
 
ZDP-189 holds an edge under normal conditions (for bushwhacking softer steel is better) longer than just about any other steel out there. And when someone comes out with another steel that makes a significant improvement over ZDP-189, I’ll be just as excited for that. It’s all about having the best.
 
ZDP can get harder and still have some usable toughness, altough lower than most. It really benefits small folders with which chopping and prying don't really happen.
 
Where ZDP shines isn't so much edgeholding as its hardness, which means the edge is strong, which means you can reduce the edge angle. Pick up the Calypso Jr in ZDP to see for yourself, very thin-edged means it cuts like a razor.
 
Hi Bladeprince,

In the auto industry, as most industries, there is a never ending competition for the product that "jumps higher and runs faster". ford, vs XXX, Ferrri vs XXX.

Such a competition exists in the knife industry and the foundries compete on a very high level in the manufacturing of steels that perform better. This competition has produced / evolved new methods of manufacturing steels.

Particle metallurgy, nitrogen steels, etc.

Knife aficianados that have been involved in knives for a while and look more closely at the chemistry of the steels watch for these new and interesting combinations of chemicals with an interest to see the advancements that the new technology may have created.

eg;

Does ZDP-189, Hitachi's newest "wonder steel" really cut better and stay sharper longer?,

Will H-1 or X15Tn really rust?

etc.

When these steels become available in pieces they can actually hold and test for themselves, There is much discussion and comparing of notes and experiences between these aficianados, or more commonly called "steel junkies".

ZDP-189 is a new steel with extraordinary chemisty, only made possible through new manufacturing methods.

sal
 
Im going to pick up a WHK here in the near future....I checked some out at the Blade show awhile back and I was really impressed with the ZDP 189.
 
While much is made about the chroimum, 440A has 16/18 so 20% isn't something to get worked up about. The very high amount of carbon though is pretty exceptional. For knifemakers it is attractive because unlike the very high wear Crucible steels, ZDP-189 doesn't require high austenization temperatures. It also offers a much higher hardness than typical stainless steels, aside from the HSS's like BG-42. It would be interesting to compare those two steels as well some of the powder stainless HSS coming out of Japan.

-Cliff
 
Lots of great info...thank you all.

I see the "big deal" now. I's the Rockwell level. With an RC of up to 66, does one need diamond rods to sharpen it? Without them, I'm betting that sharpening ZDP would be a pain in the ass. Nothing comes free. Is this a correct statement?

I'm thinking that S30V, VG10, 154CM, and D2 are more then adequate for my needs.
 
bladeprince said:
Lots of great info...thank you all.

I see the "big deal" now. I's the Rockwell level. With an RC of up to 66, does one need diamond rods to sharpen it? Without them, I'm betting that sharpening ZDP would be a pain in the ass. Nothing comes free. Is this a correct statement?

I'm thinking that S30V, VG10, 154CM, and D2 are more then adequate for my needs.
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No experience with the other companies ZDP, but I've yet to read of any difficulty in sharpening ZDP in the Spyderco test blades.
 
if you can put a much thinner edge on a blade steel (such as ZDP) it may mean that ifd the knife is making the best of the steel then there wont be as much steel to remove.
 
it's japanese and expensive
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I concur. It holds an edge a lil longer. Is that worth the exponential increase in cost? Does the steel make a 30 dollar knife worth 200? I don't think so, but some do.
 
Actually, a more acute edge bevel would mean you have to remove more steel when you sharpen it as the final bevel will have more surface area.
 
Hair said:
Actually, a more acute edge bevel would mean you have to remove more steel when you sharpen it as the final bevel will have more surface area.
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A more acute angle, with a microbevel has much less area that needs to be sharpened regularly - and I'm pretty sure that's what they meant. :thumbup:
 
I was refering to what Andy L said. And I am pretty sure that is NOT what he meant.

Andy_L said:
if you can put a much thinner edge on a blade steel (such as ZDP) it may mean that ifd the knife is making the best of the steel then there wont be as much steel to remove.
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He said a thinner edge means less material to remove when sharpening. The opposite is true.

beefangusbeef- I agree with you in terms of the auction prices of the Spyderco ZDP-189 knives. Their original prices were very reasonable, but their auction prices are a bit out of line, IMO. They are sub-100 dollars knives, not 200-300 dollar knives (I would not say they are only worth 30). However, I think the ZDP-189 Leek is a bargain at 200 bucks MSRP and the ZDP-189 WHKs are also fantastic for $300-600. But they both also use titanium which drives up the price (and makes them worth it, IMO) and WHK has a fairly high level of fit and finish and quality control. Higher than one should expect from a sub-100 dollar knife that happens to have a ZDP-189 blade.

I think ZDP-189 knives are priced reasonably, from around 70 bucks for ZDP-189 and FRN Spyderco, to 200 bucks for a ZDP-189 and titanium Leek, to 300+ bucks for a ZDP-189 and titanium WH with superior fit and finish. It is just demand for the ZDP-189 Spydercos that drove their prices so high. Their original prices were very reasonable.
 
right. what I meant in that since the metal is ok at finer angle you can have something that is very nearly a full flat grind with only the smallest of micro bevels to form the cutting edge (say 1mm deep rather then 3mm). I guess I didn't make it very clear, even then the final angle can be rather acute (not sure just how acute yet). I think the size of the edge bevel makes quite a lot of differnce to how the blade cuts, possibly more then the final cutting angle on some things.

I hope I've made myself more clear
 
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