Big Game bullets

Really, Danny, those old, slow bullets will work just fine for stopping most stuff.
They'll even stop a big, nasty ole daga boy (Cape Buffalo)- they just don't give you much margin if they stop later, rather than sooner.

John
 
Don't let Spectre scare you, Danny. Those bullets may be slow, but they won't be old. You buy them new from the store.


munk
 
I want to say Hemingway was a big fan of the 6.5 Mannlicher. I'd have to do some research, though, and I should be doing homework.

Funny, munk. :) I meant, of course, the old 400 grain-ish lead load, at walking speed, or so. ;)
 
Nowhere does Hemingway appear truer to his nature than in the photographs that show him hunting or fishing or on the battlefield.

Whether he holds the Tycoon rod he used to catch spearfish or his Austrian Mannlicher Schoenaur .256 which he used on elephant hunts, these images seem to encapsulate the truth.

http://www.ernest.hemingway.com/conclusion.htm
 
That 400 gr load used to be at 1300 fps or so.... Of course I knew what you meant. You're the gun writer, though, and we need to say; "Old Loadings"
Or not.

I really got a kick out of hopefully making you laugh.
But poor Danny... we have him fretting. Spectre, you know exactly what it is like to want a gun and to find out the thing you want will not do everything you want it to.

"But please, pleeaaasee; couldn't you safely kill with a 45/70 double if the Buff were running uphill and you were shooting down?"



munk
 
Ain't no real "safe" when hunting Cape Buff. You might get lucky, and down them with a single round from a .303, or you might unload a .460 Weatherby on them, and still get smooshed (how's that for technical, munk? ;) ) into half an acre of African soil...

Still, lots of folks have been dropping them with .45-70's and BB or Garretts, in the last few years.

Me? I want to take the Big Five- less elephant- with a 12 gauge. I'd love to see if Mossberg and Brenneke would sponsor me.
 
That's it!
I'm buying it.
45-70 and shooting the hottest loads a competent gunsmith would recommend.
And, if I ever shoot at a really scary thing, I will not shoot unless closer than 50 yds.
How does that sound ?
 
"smooshing' is perfectly legit. It brings to mind an almost universal reaction of seeing the hunter become 'one' with the land, elastic, pliable, even a liquid.

He's been smooshed and you can still see the snail trail of his innards over there on that thorn bush.


Danny, a 45/70 double might be a decent choice for Grizzly in the lower 48. They aren't as nearly as big as their Coastal Brown cousins and if you have any chance at all in a sudden encounter, two quick shots would seem to be best- as most people say you'd be lucky to even get one in.

munk
 
There are plenty of instances in history where African big game was hunted with rifles chambered for rounds of approximately 7mm, but I'll bet very few of those guys went into thick bush after something wounded with one.
 
Supposedly Game was more plentiful, was not as spooked, they had more time to pick their shots and animal.


munk
 
On the plains, you can hunt with anything that'll penetrate at distance, and just
wait for them to fall. If they close the distance, just use your 5 gun-bearers toting shotguns and SMLE .303s to finish them off (if your bearers don't run when charged, or course- good help is hard to find).

It may be a wee bit different at 30 meters.
 
I was thinking of Bell, his 7x57, and the elephants he killed. Not just on plains, but everywhere. The explanations offered by modern outfitters and hunters often are that there was more game, less spooked, and more time for Bell a hundred years ago. (or whenever it was)


munk
 
Guys have tried to duplicate some of Bell's shooting and were killed. He seems to have been one of the finest shots ever and the game was not as wary. It seems he was a unique man in a time that will not be replicated, and I think Lady Luck played some role too.
 
Mrs. O'Connor killed an elephant with a 7x57 before such small calibres were outlawed.

I tend to go with the more game and not as spooked theory regarding Bell. Wasn't it Bell who said if you missed an elephant's brain it didn't matter if the miss was a large Nitro Express or a 7x57?
Of course I've also read that a 'near miss' with a large bore will sometimes shock the animal allowing a subsequent killing shot. For those of you wanting to play around with shock.




munk
 
Dan,

Until there is some sort of consensus on the strength of the new EEA double rifle, about all a guy can do is use something conservative. We do have a SAAMI-pressure compliant 45-70 GOVT load that pushes our 420-grain SuperHardCast Hammerhead to 1650-fps from 22-inch barrels. It's hard to imagine that EEA would produce a new gun incapable of handling a SAAMI-pressure compliant load. But again, it's hard to be definitive about something that the industry has not spoken on, and something that we have not had a chance to evaluate ourselves. As to performance, our 45-70 GOVT Ammo is extremely effective as can be seen by reviewing our Trophies Page.

Cordially, Randy Garrett
 
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