Big Knife Kiln by Sugar Creek Orton Temp Controller

Jeremy Barnard

Jeremy Barnard

Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
853
Welp I bought one. Do we have any other makers here that use one? What do y'all think?

(pointless thread yes but i was excited)
 
I bought it without the Orton and made my own ( see post below yours) I opted not to get the Orton for a couple reason as at the the time of purchase Mrs Sue told me she was having trouble getting the Orton and I could buy all the parts for less than the added cost of the orton and assemble it myself. If the getting the Orton had not been mentioned I probably would have bit the bullet and got the kiln with the Orton on it just for a neater presntation but would have built the controller anyway as well to run the toaster oven or the quench tank.

Congrats on your purchase and know the feeling you are having!
 
I have this kiln with the digital control it is nice. I still have not even turned it on yet. Make sure you check for damage carefully mine arrived ok with only a few loose and missing screws. They did seem to pack with care tho with lots of expanding foam. I almost made my own kiln but price on this seemed great for its size .
 
I have the BKK with Orton digital controller. It works great for what I do -- simple carbon steels and hamon stuff. You're right about the packing... that expanding foam was a PITA. It took me an hour to chip it away. The kiln works great out of the box. The only things that I've added are a couple 1/2" steel plates to the bottom for thermal mass, and one of those Evenheat ceramic pin knife-holding fixtures that Tracy sells.
Erin
 
Thanks a million Rick for the link! That is exactly what I was thinking just from observing electric oven in my home. Now I just need to figure out how to progran the controller to do that lol!
 
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Apologies in advance if the following is unclear: I'm a somewhat anal geek who plays with process control for a living. Explaining things to real people is something i struggle with. However, here are a couple of tips for setting up furnace/kiln controllers that I've picked up, mostly the hard way.

Use a 2-second cycle time if you are on an SSR output. If you are on a relay output, use the shortest output cycle time you can get away with. This will help to minimize any sawtooth variation either side of setpoint.

If you only have one set of PID terms available, and you are going to be using the same furnace for both Austenitizing and tempering, do your tuning at tempering temperature. Powerful elements and low temperatures are a recipe for overshoot. A few degrees of overshoot at tempering temperature will have a much bigger detrimental effect on the finished blade than the same overshoot at Austenitizing temperature, so it's more important to get it right at tempering temperature.

The slower temperature changes at the higher temperatures will actually mean that you'll get much less overshoot at Austenitizing when correctly tuned for tempering, than the overshoot you'd get at tempering if correctly tuned for Austenitizing.

Better still, tune at Austenitizing temperature, note the PID terms, then tune at tempering temperature, note the PID terms. Then when you use the kiln/furnace/oven, enter the correct PID settings for the job in hand.

For my HT furnaces, I tend to use an AutomationDirect Solo controller. This will tune for 4 different sets of PID terms at different temperatures and automatically use the PID terms for the closest tuning temperature to the setpoint. Other than this feature, it seems to have similar functionality to the Auber ramp/soak controllers mentioned in previous posts.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ers/1-z-16_DIN_Size_(SL4848_Series)/SL4848-VR

Before you tune your control loop, take the temperature up to near-maximum and leave it there for a few minutes. Then switch off and leave it to cool overnight. This gets a nice dark oxide layer on the thermocouple and ensures it responds as fast as it can to radiant heat. If you tune with a shiny new thermocouple, it will reflect some of the radiant heat from the elements, rather than absorbing it, and affect the response rate.

Check or change your thermocouple regularly. Especially if you are using one of the ubiquitous K type. They do suffer from drift when used above about 1000 degC (1832 degF). I tend to use type N instead. Type N was developed to overcome, or at least dramatically reduce, the high-temperature drift. With many controllers, you are likely to be stuck with the type K input.

If you have the option, always ramp and soak for tempering. Use a slow ramp to overcome the radiant heating issue; As a general recommendation, I'd suggest an hour from room temperature to tempering for Carbon steels.

Regards

Tim
 
Thanks Tim... still trying to digest that... but it is good to know someone who is knowledgeable on this subject.
 
Rick I saw that post that you linked quite a while back. Thanks for bringing that to my attention again.

Good info as well Tim.
 
I have gotten an update from USAknifemaker. I received a phone call telling me that Sugar Creek was no longer in business! News to me. However they gave a discount off which ever oven I wanted. I decided on the Even Heat kf 18 rampmaster. Look forward to getting it!
 
Is the Good Kiln company still around? They made the kiln under the Sugar Creek. Good Kiln has been around for a while.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Sugar Creek out of business?

I've been using one 6-7 years. Good oven!
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They are still on their website but I see Tracy no longer sells them??? I just bought one 2 months ago.
 
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bladsmth said:
Just to avoid confusion, I think the USAKnifemakers owner is Tracy Mickley.
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Ha my bad. I have only ordered from TRACY a dozen times. Think I could get it right!
 
I just got.my oven in last week. I talked to Sue at Good Kiln and she told me she was having issues getting the Orton controllers and did not know when she would get them so i opted not to get the Orton and just build the super controller that Stacy made.
 
That's Stacy, not Tracy ;) I always got super confused when there was a Stacy AND Tracy around here.
 
Huh..All I know is what one of the ladies that called me said. That Sugar Creek had went out of business.. Strange...
 
Jiggy said:
Huh..All I know is what one of the ladies that called me said. That Sugar Creek had went out of business.. Strange...
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GREAT!! I just got mine and it has not even been used yet! God forbid there is ever a problem. KNEW I should have purchased the evenheat!!!
 
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