big mokume gane

butcher_block

butcher_block

Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
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so any one out there done this as of late i saw some info on it but its all old news
the plan is for me to make about a 1 inch square 5-6 inch long and do a twist to it before milling/ turning the parts i need out of it
i have a kiln to do it in so even heating should be no problem
so what say you
just for the info the chunks are going to need to be about 1"x1"x .5 if i dont mess up i ll need 2 like that and 2 2.5x.75x.125
thanks
butch
 
the only thing i see is your stack needs to be in the 1.3+ inch range to start with. like patterened steel damascus, you will loose material in the process. better to have too much than not enough for the project.
 
butcher_block said:
so any one out there done this as of late i saw some info on it but its all old news
the plan is for me to make about a 1 inch square 5-6 inch long and do a twist to it before milling/ turning the parts i need out of it
i have a kiln to do it in so even heating should be no problem
so what say you
just for the info the chunks are going to need to be about 1"x1"x .5 if i dont mess up i ll need 2 like that and 2 2.5x.75x.125
thanks
butch
Click to expand...

How did you know I was going to be asking you if I could play with your oven for this? I just came up with an idea last night and want to make some mokume soon. Wanna split an order of copper & nickel to play with? :D

BTW: I have stock & such laying around to build a couple of the plate clamp setups to hold your sheets together while you cook 'em.

-d
 
by god that just might work
let me see what we can work out on this
have you looked around to see about the cost of copper and nicsilver sheets
 
butcher_block said:
by god that just might work
let me see what we can work out on this
have you looked around to see about the cost of copper and nicsilver sheets
Click to expand...

Also, it's quite possible to use a coal forge for reshaping things one they're fused. Need to be careful, but my initial tests with a couple of quarters on Saturday were promising...if the fusing was done in a kiln, forging would be a lot easier as the working temp is much lower and less likely to burn.

As for material pricing, onlinemetals.com has 18ga copper 12"x12" for $26.44. 0.05" Nickle is only listed at 6"x48" and is $200+! I'm sure we can find some stuff to scrounge cheaper. I recently met a guy in b'more who I KNOW has some copper and would probably know where to get nickle. I've got call him this week anyways.

I'll look around in the scrap pile and see what size torque plates I can make. I know I have a piece of 6"x6"x1/2" that can be cut up for this, and I can probably get some VERY useful scraps from Riley Welding for just a couple bucks if we need more.

-d
 
nickel silver 18 guage ,6 X 24" is only $11.50 from riogrande. don't know why anyone would want to put expensive nickel into a non ferrous mokume billet.
 
Shakudo said:
nickel silver 18 guage ,6 X 24" is only $11.50 from riogrande. don't know why anyone would want to put expensive nickel into a non ferrous mokume billet.
Click to expand...

'Cause I'm still learning and didn't realize nickel was so expensive :) Thanks for the pointer to riogrande. I also just talked to the afforementioned guy in b'more and he has a bunch of copper sheet cut into 3ft square sections. I'll be stopping by is place friday to look at some other stuff as well.

-d
 
BTT on this one.

Butch, I'm ready to order stuff to work on this if you're up to it (I think all I need is copper, NS, and some yellow ochre powder. I'm willing to try a first run w/o tool wrap...my gut says we can do without). I also want to talk to you about stealing some controlled oven time from you to work on clay quenching on some 1084.

Drop me email through the board here and I'll get you my phone # and such.

-d
 
so deker you goingto post the picture of your puddle im getting ready to try today and might have a puddle of my own to show:barf:
 
butcher_block said:
so deker you goingto post the picture of your puddle im getting ready to try today and might have a puddle of my own to show:barf:
Click to expand...

No pics yet, and some of it is just splattered on the garage floor... DO use your stainless foil, the plates, etc oxidized a LOT. I may have to buy some of that foil from you, it would have saved my kiln floor and kept the oxidation down.

For those who HAVEN'T been reading our personal email ;), I tried making copper/nickel silver mokume yesterday and my temp info was WAY off. Ended up with a puddle of SOMETHING on the floor of the kiln. Gotta see if I can pop it back off tonight without damaging the firebrick too much.

Lemme know how it goes for you.

-d
 
im using the foil and the plates its in the kiln right now so now i got to do a little good luck dance
im goignto start at max temp of 1800 and go up from there if need be since its in the foil i hope if i do melt it down it will be sorta a usable blob of something
butch
 
You guys need to do some research on mokume' . The eutectic temperatures are a lot lower than you are firing at.You will get a molten puddle the way you are going.While the individual elements have high melting points,the eutectic alloy that form at the junction of dissimilar metals has a lower point.It will be going along fine,and WHAM,it melts all at once.
Stacy
 
welll i know i at least got it close
other then going at it too hard withe the mill and going the wrong way at that
its together
might have just got lucky
128601932_aa68114db2.jpg
 
butcher_block said:
hey what the hell is that you getting sweet on me or something:barf: :barf: :thumbdn:
Click to expand...

Don't forget I'm a defense contractor...just a reminder that Big Brother is watching ;)

As for the first attempt...looks pretty good. You may be able to get that one layer to stick down with a hammer and a forge, or you mill off the top layer. Whole lot more useful than my puddle at any rate :D

Did you coat the plates with anything? Could that delamination be due to some sticking as it was removed from the plates?

-d
 
pickle and clean out the split area.tap the split closed,flux and hard solder it back together. now you just need to get the pattern into the billet without more delamination.:)
 
ooo the delam is from running the mill wrong
i think im going to clean it up and rerun it in the kiln at like 1825 or so i want to make sure about it being fused

i plan on doing a twist pat. to it
also it must have been about right cause the SS foil started to fuse to the stack
that little bit that is sticking out i will most likly cut off after the twisting
i have more pictures to post more on that tomarow or monday
 
i was talking to delbert ealy and he said that if your copper is heated too hot(above 1800 degrees)and you smack it with a hammer, it could temp spike and melt the material.
 
Mike Davis said:
i was talking to delbert ealy and he said that if your copper is heated too hot(above 1800 degrees)and you smack it with a hammer, it could temp spike and melt the material.
Click to expand...
now thats interesting
 
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