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As they say: It's not the steel, it's the smith.
Anyone who says otherwise is misinformed or trying to sell you something.
This :thumbup:
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Big Survival Knife Steel, 1095 or 5160
- Thread starter evildick
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This :thumbup:
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But all other things being equal, 1095 or 5160?
How about this....
I'm going to remove the extraneous posts from this thread. Start over.
Instead of bickering or trying to prove our metallurgical knowledge, we try to just answer the OP's specific question.
1095 or 5160 and why would you choose whichever one you've chosen?
I'm going to remove the extraneous posts from this thread. Start over.
Instead of bickering or trying to prove our metallurgical knowledge, we try to just answer the OP's specific question.
1095 or 5160 and why would you choose whichever one you've chosen?
Last edited:
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- Jan 29, 2008
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If the heat treat, grind, and construction were equal, I'd go with whichever was cheaper. If cost was equal as well, I'd probably go with 5160, just because its slightly less common. In my admittedly limited experience, either will do just fine.
For big survival knives I woud absolutely go with 5160. This to the point I would choose a knife over the other on that issue alone.
1095 is an excellent steel, but there are clues that it tends to be on the brittle side, and more appropriate for smaller knives (say up to 6-7").
When many years ago the Tops Steel Eagle (then made in 1095) was tested for batoning by Cliff Stamp, the teeth in its serration suffered small breaks in various places on their rear edges, which given the stout teeth design is a sure sign of brittleness.
I've batoned those same exact teeth in later Tops models made of 5160, and there was no problem.
Since those long-ago Cliff Stamp tests, I noticed most Tops knives are now in 5160, and I find the steel excellent and easy to sharpen, even with the huge task of thinning their thick grind...
Then there is this below, a 1095 big knife by a reputable company (which I would still like a lot, if the heat-treating did not curve the blade slightly on mine, a purely cosmetic dislike):
Another thing is I've noted is that the BK-9 seems to "vibrate/bite" the hand very hard while chopping, and I don't know if it is a combination of the nice but too hand-filling handle (no "give" room), the thinner stock, or whatever, but the impression of a nasty biting vibration when chopping bare hand makes it tiresome to use, despite a very reasonable chopping performance. Maybe this stinging vibration would not be as noticeable if it was made of a steel that is more "shock absorping"? It seems unlikely this would be noticeable, but the issue did seem to stand out in use. Probably more because of stock thickness differences...
Note that the Becker does hold an edge very well, so "relative" brittleness is not a loss without gain...
Gaston
1095 is an excellent steel, but there are clues that it tends to be on the brittle side, and more appropriate for smaller knives (say up to 6-7").
When many years ago the Tops Steel Eagle (then made in 1095) was tested for batoning by Cliff Stamp, the teeth in its serration suffered small breaks in various places on their rear edges, which given the stout teeth design is a sure sign of brittleness.
I've batoned those same exact teeth in later Tops models made of 5160, and there was no problem.
Since those long-ago Cliff Stamp tests, I noticed most Tops knives are now in 5160, and I find the steel excellent and easy to sharpen, even with the huge task of thinning their thick grind...
Then there is this below, a 1095 big knife by a reputable company (which I would still like a lot, if the heat-treating did not curve the blade slightly on mine, a purely cosmetic dislike):
I agree with Stabman, the BK9 would be my top choice probably, in that price and size range. Simply a fantastic knife. I am going to add these pics, though, not to disagree, or disparage Becker, because they are a fine company, and Mr. Ethan Becker is a great guy and provides a great product. But simply to point out that sometimes bad things happen to any knife, and I would be more concerned with how I use it, than finding an "indestructible knife." That's just my outlook on it, though.
Don't abuse the knife, and you've got a much better chance of it lasting forever. Just my .02.
Sam :thumbup:
Another thing is I've noted is that the BK-9 seems to "vibrate/bite" the hand very hard while chopping, and I don't know if it is a combination of the nice but too hand-filling handle (no "give" room), the thinner stock, or whatever, but the impression of a nasty biting vibration when chopping bare hand makes it tiresome to use, despite a very reasonable chopping performance. Maybe this stinging vibration would not be as noticeable if it was made of a steel that is more "shock absorping"? It seems unlikely this would be noticeable, but the issue did seem to stand out in use. Probably more because of stock thickness differences...
Note that the Becker does hold an edge very well, so "relative" brittleness is not a loss without gain...
Gaston
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- Oct 14, 2013
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- 107
In my experiences with these steels.
1. I have had 1095 chip and never had 5160 chip. ( the largest 1095 knife I own is a junglas and it has never chipped)
2. I tend to be able to get a sharper edge on my 1095 over the 5160. (All my 5160 blades are large choppers)
It's a win win in my book I love both of these steels. That being said I don't make knives I buy'em and use'em. That being said. Most makers do seem to use 1095 for moderate to small blades and 5160 for the all other above that mark (as you pretty much stated in your post I suppose). That has to be for a reason. I'm sure temper and quality of manufacture plays a large role in actual performance. Good luck!
1. I have had 1095 chip and never had 5160 chip. ( the largest 1095 knife I own is a junglas and it has never chipped)
2. I tend to be able to get a sharper edge on my 1095 over the 5160. (All my 5160 blades are large choppers)
It's a win win in my book I love both of these steels. That being said I don't make knives I buy'em and use'em. That being said. Most makers do seem to use 1095 for moderate to small blades and 5160 for the all other above that mark (as you pretty much stated in your post I suppose). That has to be for a reason. I'm sure temper and quality of manufacture plays a large role in actual performance. Good luck!
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2009
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I am going to say 1095,
Not because I know a lot about steels, I don't. I have a lot of fancy knives with fancy steels. They work.
But if I have a nasty job that needs doing I almost always reach for a 1095 knife. So far I have had no issues. There is another tool steel that I like equally well. But that is not what you asked for.
I have used and abused Beckers down into the -20 degree range with no issues. It may have as much to do with the designs of the knives I choose as it does the steel. And in truth, I have never had a knife really fail. Any knife.
These knives get used for the usual camp chores. Food, shelter, and firewood. I build shelters, make tent pegs, spears, traps, and process fire wood. In winter here, I process a lot of firewood. Mostly hardwood beech, maple, cherry, with some pine and poplar.
If I see a piece of wood with a seriously stupid set of knots, I just avoid it. Especially if it's -27, which it often is here. But I have seen these knives deflect laterally to an astonishing degree with no ill effects.
I always remeber the story of the Liberty Ships. Steel was just fine in warm air/water. Not so much in the frigid North Atlantic. So I act accordingly.
I have had one blade chip out. It was not a Becker, nor was it either of these steels. I was chopping dead Hemlock branches in winter. It was about 3/4 of an inch long and about 1/8 of an inch deep. I don't call that a failure as much as an inconvenience.
Hope this helps,
Not because I know a lot about steels, I don't. I have a lot of fancy knives with fancy steels. They work.
But if I have a nasty job that needs doing I almost always reach for a 1095 knife. So far I have had no issues. There is another tool steel that I like equally well. But that is not what you asked for.
I have used and abused Beckers down into the -20 degree range with no issues. It may have as much to do with the designs of the knives I choose as it does the steel. And in truth, I have never had a knife really fail. Any knife.
These knives get used for the usual camp chores. Food, shelter, and firewood. I build shelters, make tent pegs, spears, traps, and process fire wood. In winter here, I process a lot of firewood. Mostly hardwood beech, maple, cherry, with some pine and poplar.
If I see a piece of wood with a seriously stupid set of knots, I just avoid it. Especially if it's -27, which it often is here. But I have seen these knives deflect laterally to an astonishing degree with no ill effects.
I always remeber the story of the Liberty Ships. Steel was just fine in warm air/water. Not so much in the frigid North Atlantic. So I act accordingly.
I have had one blade chip out. It was not a Becker, nor was it either of these steels. I was chopping dead Hemlock branches in winter. It was about 3/4 of an inch long and about 1/8 of an inch deep. I don't call that a failure as much as an inconvenience.
Hope this helps,
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- Jan 3, 2014
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On what planet are most of TOPS Knives made of 5160? Almost every one of their knives is still made using 1095.
True: The only one TOPS have is the Hellion and it is 5160, and the Power Eagle I was interested is in 5160 as well, so I assumed the whole range had shifted to it... My bad.
Gaston
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