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Camillus machax
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BK-4.1
- Thread starter Rebel Nimrod
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The convexed 4140 of my Cincinnati Machax is something special indeed
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- May 18, 2015
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Some comparison shots of a Camillus Machax .250 and a KaBar Bk4 .188 thick
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Well I guess its time to voice my 2 cents. 1/4" machax no thanks, maybe. I think i'm done with 1/4" choppers (with a few exceptions, of course). Now that I've had a cincin for a while I think it's amazing, but at .21"/.22" that's as thick as I would go. Side note: I also think it may have been over-hyped (thanks bladite haha). It's probably my favorite blade that I own, but I think the Kabar is better. Just like the bk9 the weight to performance ratio is off the charts. Frankly the fact that I can use the bk4 all day and not wear my arm out is the winner factor (or course maybe I'm just a baby and should work out more).
What I've found when comparing the Cam bk1 and bk4 is they are similar, but the machax is worse. It pains me to pick on my favorite design, but the cam brute was a better blade than the cam machax and I hate the brute. Yes they are about the same weight and they suffer from the same problems, obtuse grind, too much forward weight, and too thick. However, the brute has a better balance and overall less weight. The cam machax (and blackjack) are really only good for froes.
I've modded two camillus machax to make them usable. One full convex and other full flat. Sadly I still haven't used my full flat enough to make a good judgement on it, but it seems to act very similar to the kabar bk4. The convex is very close in performance to the cincin. Whenever I have the time and another camillus to butcher, my next mod will be to give it a bk5/20 vibe. I'm going to take in the flat saber grind to a thin edge and then I will add the relief cuts along the spine to drop the weight. Will probably drill some holes holes under the handles. Even then it might be too much steel and have too much forward weight. That would be the only 1/4" machax I would like to see. After I put all that work in it, it will probably just perform like a cincin.
I don't know where Ethan currently sides on this, but I assume he thinks the kabar is the best. After all if he liked the cincin better he would have had kabar make that, right? If we see a new Machax I would like to see a thinner, longer one. Think 1/8" like the blackjack RBK, that's a serious chopper with a lot of slice. Or maybe a smaller tweener version.
What I've found when comparing the Cam bk1 and bk4 is they are similar, but the machax is worse. It pains me to pick on my favorite design, but the cam brute was a better blade than the cam machax and I hate the brute. Yes they are about the same weight and they suffer from the same problems, obtuse grind, too much forward weight, and too thick. However, the brute has a better balance and overall less weight. The cam machax (and blackjack) are really only good for froes.
I've modded two camillus machax to make them usable. One full convex and other full flat. Sadly I still haven't used my full flat enough to make a good judgement on it, but it seems to act very similar to the kabar bk4. The convex is very close in performance to the cincin. Whenever I have the time and another camillus to butcher, my next mod will be to give it a bk5/20 vibe. I'm going to take in the flat saber grind to a thin edge and then I will add the relief cuts along the spine to drop the weight. Will probably drill some holes holes under the handles. Even then it might be too much steel and have too much forward weight. That would be the only 1/4" machax I would like to see. After I put all that work in it, it will probably just perform like a cincin.
I don't know where Ethan currently sides on this, but I assume he thinks the kabar is the best. After all if he liked the cincin better he would have had kabar make that, right? If we see a new Machax I would like to see a thinner, longer one. Think 1/8" like the blackjack RBK, that's a serious chopper with a lot of slice. Or maybe a smaller tweener version.
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- May 18, 2015
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knifejunkie1928
I have to agree with you about the weight. The Cam Bk4 is a front heavy pig. I haven't used it yet but i have been cutting air with the Cam and the Kabar. Definitely prefer the .188 Kabar over the .250 Cam. A .220 would be perfect. I might 20º convex the edge on the Cam. Not sure yet.I did this on my 29. It added some weight but improved the overall balance and feel. JB weld and stainless nut. Its easy to knock it out if I dont like it or want to add or take away weight.
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- 19,887
the last gen Blackjack sterile Machax stuff was just junk. bad grinds imho.
Camillus probably based their BK4 off that. it's thick. it's nasty.
the chrome Machax was a thing of slicing beauty, and choppy goodness. for the era, there's nothing quite like it.
nothing quite like it after.
the phoshated one, once you convex it, was lovely. my EDC. i should probably bust a chrome out, as a user this Summer.
that said? they are great knives for the size and practice. the BK9 might be better, but i almost never reach for one. i have much better choices in true khukris and parangs, E-NEPS, and AXES. i came to the conclusion that i live in the North East Hardwoods forest. knives are for camp. axes and saws are how you get it done. i don't DO survival. i do land husbandry. you don't do that with a knife. if i'm in camp? i'm a dumbass if i don't have proper tools with me. now, you can get a lot done with a knife, if you have to, but that's not thriving, that's surviving.
still, i have my romantic connection with the Machax, and for the size/etc, it's what i want.
if you go too think, you risk KLO, and you might as well just give up right there and get a better too.
i don't want a machete. i'm not a girly man. i want a BEAST CHOPPER.
the KaBar BK4 was everything wrong with the evolution of what i adored. it's not a Machax. that was another era. it's a KLO. there, i said it again. useful for many people, but it's not what i wanted. i have a host of other choices that can beat it in any contest. including imho the originals. it's really that plain with me.
also, it's not marketing, just my preference. for me, i believe that Ethan nailed it, back around the early 80s for that model. anything else, is other people trying to figure out how best to sell it, and modify it. not buying it
i will take my 2 lb head Fiskars, and chop down trees all day long, before i used my Machax. i'm not stupid. there are things knives do well, and there are things that even cheap ass axes do better. when did we get mental about that distinction?
Camillus probably based their BK4 off that. it's thick. it's nasty.
the chrome Machax was a thing of slicing beauty, and choppy goodness. for the era, there's nothing quite like it.
nothing quite like it after.
the phoshated one, once you convex it, was lovely. my EDC. i should probably bust a chrome out, as a user this Summer.
that said? they are great knives for the size and practice. the BK9 might be better, but i almost never reach for one. i have much better choices in true khukris and parangs, E-NEPS, and AXES. i came to the conclusion that i live in the North East Hardwoods forest. knives are for camp. axes and saws are how you get it done. i don't DO survival. i do land husbandry. you don't do that with a knife. if i'm in camp? i'm a dumbass if i don't have proper tools with me. now, you can get a lot done with a knife, if you have to, but that's not thriving, that's surviving.
still, i have my romantic connection with the Machax, and for the size/etc, it's what i want.
if you go too think, you risk KLO, and you might as well just give up right there and get a better too.
i don't want a machete. i'm not a girly man. i want a BEAST CHOPPER.
the KaBar BK4 was everything wrong with the evolution of what i adored. it's not a Machax. that was another era. it's a KLO. there, i said it again. useful for many people, but it's not what i wanted. i have a host of other choices that can beat it in any contest. including imho the originals. it's really that plain with me.
also, it's not marketing, just my preference. for me, i believe that Ethan nailed it, back around the early 80s for that model. anything else, is other people trying to figure out how best to sell it, and modify it. not buying it
i will take my 2 lb head Fiskars, and chop down trees all day long, before i used my Machax. i'm not stupid. there are things knives do well, and there are things that even cheap ass axes do better. when did we get mental about that distinction?
The BK 4 from Kabar is nice multi-tool. Is it a BEAST CHOPPER? No but neither is the BK 9, both are large knives that can chop and rise to do the heavy chopping when needed. That is what makes them both great multi-tool blades to have.
Yes a 1/4" Machaxe with a good steel would be great, for a great chopper and an inch longer or two.
Between my OKC Kukri and my BK 4, the BK 4 comes along more often mostly because of its SMASHING AND BASHING and thumping and whumping hilt. (I'd say pummel but I don't want to offend any PC elite freaks with the violent connotations that might be implied in the vagueness of violence that might be seen in or of terms by the word pummel).
Yes a 1/4" Machaxe with a good steel would be great, for a great chopper and an inch longer or two.
Between my OKC Kukri and my BK 4, the BK 4 comes along more often mostly because of its SMASHING AND BASHING and thumping and whumping hilt. (I'd say pummel but I don't want to offend any PC elite freaks with the violent connotations that might be implied in the vagueness of violence that might be seen in or of terms by the word pummel).
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- Feb 15, 2015
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Yes the bk4 from kabar is not a "beast chopper" but that actually fits my Florida environment very nicely. You do need to match your tools to your environment, so that's probably why I have been favoring the kabar version. A machete or 3/16" large knive, a bacho saw, and a bk16 is really the ultimate combination down here. Maybe I would prefer the Cincinnati if I was still in TN.
I really wanted to love the bk21 but it was just to much blade for me. I very much prefer the blackjack version at 1/8" It fit my environment perfectly. So if there was a machax version like that, I'd buy a few. I believe that's what moose used to out chop the Cincinnati bk4, bk9, and the brute. I should find that thread again.
As I said above I really don't like heavy chopper blades any more. Ones you get 1/4" thick steel at 9 or more inches it's either a survival tool (one tool option) or you should probably just have an axe. That being said, I still have and use many large 1/4" blades. I like what roguer said about the bk4/9 being multitools. I think that's what I look for in a large blade now. With the bk4 it's got such great balance and light weight. It makes it easy to do small knife tasks and you have the extra length if you need it. Even if you have the most well balanced 1/4" chopper in the world. It's going to be really hard to use it for small knife tasks. Your going to fatigue your hand muscles instantly. It will only be good for chopping and splitting so why not have an axe.
Haha I feel like I'm really coming off pro axe, and anti large knife. I hardly ever use an axe any more. I do like using large blades more than axes. I'm one of those people that fully knowledges that an axe is going to be the proper tool and use a knife anyway just for fun. So no hate from me. I think what I'm trying to say is I'm leaning more anti blades over 20ish ounce.
I don't think the evolution of the machax has continued to be wrong with the kabar bk4. For that class of knive it's really amazing. It's super functional and you couldn't say that about the BJ or Cam.
I really wanted to love the bk21 but it was just to much blade for me. I very much prefer the blackjack version at 1/8" It fit my environment perfectly. So if there was a machax version like that, I'd buy a few. I believe that's what moose used to out chop the Cincinnati bk4, bk9, and the brute. I should find that thread again.
As I said above I really don't like heavy chopper blades any more. Ones you get 1/4" thick steel at 9 or more inches it's either a survival tool (one tool option) or you should probably just have an axe. That being said, I still have and use many large 1/4" blades. I like what roguer said about the bk4/9 being multitools. I think that's what I look for in a large blade now. With the bk4 it's got such great balance and light weight. It makes it easy to do small knife tasks and you have the extra length if you need it. Even if you have the most well balanced 1/4" chopper in the world. It's going to be really hard to use it for small knife tasks. Your going to fatigue your hand muscles instantly. It will only be good for chopping and splitting so why not have an axe.
Haha I feel like I'm really coming off pro axe, and anti large knife. I hardly ever use an axe any more. I do like using large blades more than axes. I'm one of those people that fully knowledges that an axe is going to be the proper tool and use a knife anyway just for fun. So no hate from me. I think what I'm trying to say is I'm leaning more anti blades over 20ish ounce.
I don't think the evolution of the machax has continued to be wrong with the kabar bk4. For that class of knive it's really amazing. It's super functional and you couldn't say that about the BJ or Cam.
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- Jan 13, 2013
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My BK4.1 pick is made of 3V. And convexed. Otherwise I can't think of any improvements.