BK11 Sheath Problem

This isn't really what I'm looking for. The issue I see here is that the sheaths being produced are done half-assed and could be done much better even at the price point (ESEE Izula is only $45 and the sheath is dramatically better). When people have to learn the hard way that the sheath can actually release the blade when just walking around and the user loses an expensive BK11 CSM, it's time that someone fixes the problem at the manufacturers level instead of assuming all users are going to jimmy-rig a safety to keep their "neck knife" in its "neck sheath."
 
I think people were trying to look at the issue in terms of preventing a future issue losing a knife. It sucks that you lost your knife. I don't think that anyone who responded to your post can change that can they? Perhaps if you felt the sheath did not fit right you should have contacted k-bar before losing the knife:confused:
 
I guess what I'm looking for is for everyone who knows this is an issue to stop enabling this half-assery and demand a better sheath.
 
Its likely that some sheaths have a more snug fit than others, since the sheath is plastic not machined steel or something the tolerances are not going to be perfect more flex etc. The sheaths can wear as well from from the blade going in and out of the sheath. I hunt quite a bit myself and have lost knives that were not tied to my neck but in hip sheaths. Its possible I set them down and forgot to pick them up too (done that with other things too). My dad lost his browning buckmark pistol last year chasing coons through the brush it had a retention strap, luckily we found it by retracing steps. I lost me keys once and found them by using a garmin gps to cover the area in a grid pattern with metal detector. hope you find it...
 
Im not sure what you want, we helped with ideas to stop this from happening to others and to you again, but no insurance or warranty protects you against losing a knife. Demand a better sheath? LMAO theres hundres of articles about becker sheaths all over, do more research... cost/price wise its just not logical. Another thing izulas average in around 55, bk11s at 35, for around 20 bucks you can get another sheath For a bk11 or 14.

SO WHAT ELSE YOU LOOKING FOR????
 
Worldwood: I realize you're the newest fanboy in town, but you should probably do your research before posting. An izula with sheath only (no survival kit) is at most $45, but they are readily available on huge online knife retailers for $42. At those same retailers, the BK11 goes for $37, so you are talking a $5 difference.

Do my research? I've done plenty. I have a 1095 BK11 and I haven't had this problem with that sheath, so I figured the CSM would be fine as well. Didn't realize that everyone should know their brand new knife needs work and rigging out of the box so that you can carry it as intended. Get over your infatuation for a moment...doesn't common sense tell you that a sheath sold by the manufacturer with the knife should hold the knife in its marketed position without falling out and causing a loss of the knife? Really... just think about it.
 
NYOutdoors said:
I guess what I'm looking for is for everyone who knows this is an issue to stop enabling this half-assery and demand a better sheath.
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If THAT is what you're looking for, you'd be better off contacting Ka-bar directly, and/or contacting Toooj about this.

In this particular sub-forum we recognize issues and try our best to come up with ideas of how to keep it from happening to others based on what we have.

The Beckerheads, and this sub-forum have been quite instrumental in developments. Up to and including the making of the Bk-14.

If there is something you think needs to be fixed, figure out how to fix it, fix it, and suggest it to ka-bar on how you fixed it.
 
I am a fan but look man i came in here to help you, even showed pics of a free way to prevent your issues.You obviously didnt do enough research on retention of bk11s in their factory sheaths. I wont try and help you again. you got upset like we wasnt fixing your problems. callin me names and gettin your panties in a bunch wont help you and sounding tough on the internet is for kids.... If your an adult its simple, Im in philly send me an email and we can work out these issues in person.

Im not trying to disrespect this forum in any way, dont disrespect me over a screen. Im moving on-
 
In all fairness I have noticed that the sheath on a non coated blade is going to cause a bit more play whether the coating is stripped or it is a factory blade (the coating accounts for some nominal thickness). I have a 24 and its just a bit less snug than the 14 in either sheath. However, it will not fall out on its own, it still requires being pulled on. Be sure you didn't set it down and forget it somewhere, or if was outside your outer clothing walking through brush it could have gotten tangled and pulled out.
 
worldwood said:
I am a fan but look man i came in here to help you, even showed pics of a free way to prevent your issues.You obviously didnt do enough research on retention of bk11s in their factory sheaths. I wont try and help you again. you got upset like we wasnt fixing your problems. callin me names and gettin your panties in a bunch wont help you and sounding tough on the internet is for kids.... If your an adult its simple, Im in philly send me an email and we can work out these issues in person.

Im not trying to disrespect this forum in any way, dont disrespect me over a screen. Im moving on-
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Yikes. Tough on the internet? Re-read what you just wrote and remind me who is talking like a tough guy. I realize you tried to help and show me pictures of what can prevent these issues, but my point is that we shouldn't have to do those sorts of things to prevent losing a knife you paid for. That is a valid statement and my issue came when you tried to convince me that this is an excusable phenomenon...it's clearly a widespread issue and should be addressed by Ka-Bar.
 
diced said:
In all fairness I have noticed that the sheath on a non coated blade is going to cause a bit more play whether the coating is stripped or it is a factory blade (the coating accounts for some nominal thickness). I have a 24 and its just a bit less snug than the 14 in either sheath. However, it will not fall out on its own, it still requires being pulled on. Be sure you didn't set it down and forget it somewhere, or if was outside your outer clothing walking through brush it could have gotten tangled and pulled out.
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Hey diced,

I didn't even take the blade out while I was hunting, so I know I didn't leave it somewhere. I wear my neck knives outside my thermal shirt (base layer) to avoid it getting snagged. I'm not sure how it fell out from under all the layers without me feeling it (could of cut me too I guess) but it's truly an annoying loss. I re-traced my steps as best I could today and found nothing, even with a metal detector. :(
 
NYOutdoors said:
Hey diced,

I didn't even take the blade out while I was hunting, so I know I didn't leave it somewhere. I wear my neck knives outside my thermal shirt (base layer) to avoid it getting snagged. I'm not sure how it fell out from under all the layers without me feeling it (could of cut me too I guess) but it's truly an annoying loss. I re-traced my steps as best I could today and found nothing, even with a metal detector. :(
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That sucks, I am not a fan of the whole idea of wearing a neck knife for many reasons. One of which is the blade falling out and field dressing me while crawling over downed tree/fence etc. Hopefully when you do you your laundry you will hear clanking around or find it somewhere in the house. My wife likes to use my stuff (knives, tools etc) for whatever craft she is working on and they usually end up with her craft supplies when she's done.
 
NY,

First of all, I'm sorry that you lost your knife.

But, let's look at this in perspective. Your complaint on the lack of sheath retention is really not that common on this forum. Sure, a few knives have been lost, but I can honestly say that I have not seen a large number of threads about 11/14 sheaths not having enough retention. In fact, I can recall some complaints about the sheaths having too much retention. I recall seeing Youtube videos of people vigorously shaking their necker sheaths and the knives staying put.

Also, the knife you lost was a San Mai BK-11. The San Mai version of the necker is not coated and was manufactured in Japan not the Olean, NY factory like all other BK-11s. Therefore, it is highly likely that the San Mai BK-11 does not have dimensions perfectly identical to the regular production BK-11. The lack of retention you experienced may not necessarily be representative of all BK-11s and sheaths.

If there is an issue with the sheaths, Ka-Bar most likely will try to fix it. They have done so in the past. People complained that the sheaths dulled the knives (though it was not a problem if the knife is drawn properly) and Ka-Bar changed the composition of the sheaths.

You purchased a limited run knife that may or may not be in spec with regular production blades and were unhappy with its retention. This does not prove that there is a problem with all BK-11 sheaths. I encourage you to wait for a response from Toooj before declaring that all BK-11 sheaths are "half assed".

Furthermore, I hope that you'll stick around despite your bad experience. The designer and manufacturers of these knives really do try very hard to provide a great product for a good price, and we have a very good community of knife users here that are always glad to share their knowledge.
 
Whew, a little tense in here. Just walked in from a loooooong day at work, and, I'm thumb typing, so I'll be brief.

Hate you lost your knife, its never a good thing.

I don't wear knives around my neck, so, my experience with that particular stlye of carry is limited. I do know a few folks that only carry knives around their neck, and they go tip down, and ensure retention though various methods, such as you've seen here.

A little bit about the BK11 San Mai, they sucked. From the get go. They were the FIRST BKT product that Kabar outsourced, like was said, to Seki, the knives had spec issues, sharp corners, and heavy tool marks, for a knife that was supposed to be uncoated. And the price was far beyond the BKT "mantra".

Basically, I'm calling it a mistake. And an old mistake at that. They haven't been made for 6 yrs, any that are floating around, are OLD.

The sheath was made to hold a coated, in spec BK11, and that all they had. So, that what you got.

That knife will never be made again, and are not considered a favorite by Kabar or Ethan. Or me for that matter.

But losing a knife sucks, and Kabar is constantly evolving, based on customer feedback. If you think the are half assing anything, think again.

New sheaths are made better, strong, with better material and in the USA, all because of customer feedback.

But losing any knife does suck.

Moose
 
Saturated, thanks for an extremely well thought out and grown up response. I never thought about the fact that the CSM version is made in Japan. However, I still do believe it's the responsibility of BKT & Ka-Bar to make sure that the fact that it is not coated is accounted for with the supplied sheath. Especially considering the price they charge for the CSM version, they should make extra sure that the knife won't just fall out and be lost like it did on mine.

I've been around the BK&T forum here and there lurking, reading, and posting here and there for a little while. I know this community is very positive and a good place to be, I guess I'm just really pissed off that out of all things to happen to the knife, it fell out of the sheath and is lost before I ever had a chance to use it. I want someone or something to make it better, but I suppose it's just one of those things.
 
NYOutdoors said:
I think Ka-Bar should look into modifying the sheath design so that the knife fits more securely. It really isn't OK for it to be a gamble to use the factory sheath. I don't understand why the sheath hasn't been fixed, seems like everyone has sheath rattle. ...
I hope I don't get jumped on for this, but I'm a little sick and tired of having to work "special rigs" on every BKT so that they work properly.
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NYOutdoors said:
I guess what I'm looking for is for everyone who knows this is an issue to stop enabling this half-assery and demand a better sheath.
Click to expand...

NYOutdoors said:
Saturated, thanks for an extremely well thought out and grown up response. I never thought about the fact that the CSM version is made in Japan. However, I still do believe it's the responsibility of BKT & Ka-Bar to make sure that the fact that it is not coated is accounted for with the supplied sheath. Especially considering the price they charge for the CSM version, they should make extra sure that the knife won't just fall out and be lost like it did on mine.

I've been around the BK&T forum here and there lurking, reading, and posting here and there for a little while. I know this community is very positive and a good place to be, I guess I'm just really pissed off that out of all things to happen to the knife, it fell out of the sheath and is lost before I ever had a chance to use it. I want someone or something to make it better, but I suppose it's just one of those things.
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like the others said... old knife design, old sheath... the new sheaths are much better. they ADDRESSED the issue for standard coated knives for both the BK11 and BK14. it's actually been addressed and fixed several times since the old school Camillus sheaths, like the one you have. yeah, iirc Camillus MADE those sheaths, and KaBar used up the last of them when they bought the old stock out. OLD OLD OLD OLD. more than six years ago even.

some people who've stripped their knives have said there's more rattle/etc. it's pretty obvious when you look back on it...

KaBar is extremely proactive, they notice things, and they fix them. the current sheaths are VERY good.

sounds like yours was a fluke. i have several BK11CSMs and the retention is very good, almost too good with the sharp edges. they do rattle a teensy bit, but i have NEVER had one fall out. i've never heard of anyone's falling out that i'm aware of - yeah - it's not what you'd call wide-spread. those old sheaths were really easy to modify with some heat. many tricks. i think Eric told me about his: take the empty sheath, and push a soldering iron into the middle of the blade area just enough to make it dimple. let cool. stuff in knife. no rattle, and probably stronger retention.

as a point of safety, i'd probably test the lockup or use a tie up for any knives in the inverted position. given that you can wear the necker right-side-up or up-side-down, part of that responsibility falls to the user to make sure what they are doing is safe. they didn't tell you to hang it upside-down under your shirt, they just supplied the cord. the US military will NOT let their guys do inverted rigs without proper safety being adhered to (from what i hear, Murph?). it's dangerous!

and it sounds like you've made "special rigs" before, so why not now? i'd be interested in your specific complaints you've had to address. pictures please. actually, picture of your old sheath, just so we know what you're talking about.

so, it's sad that you lost it but that's not a warranty issue unfortunately, so asking KaBar (or someone) to "address" it constantly won't get you a new knife, or a new sheath; that particular design/line is done, and will sell out with the old sheath (again, sad to say, but that's the way of old stock).

now, here's the thing... it was under your clothes. you lost it. doesn't that strike you as ... weird? have you looked in your laundry? washer? dryer? in your car/truck where you might have thrown clothes? pretty much anywhere else other than your outdoor adventure zone? just asking. sometimes things get lost in really weird places. maybe you used it, put it down, and forgot?

i've had several friends "lose" things, and quite often they end up in their vehicle, under the front passenger seat, or passenger door storage well. like magic! almost EVERYTIME. look under the driver's seat too. with a good flashlight. look a LOT and hard. know why? sooner or later you might find that unsheathed knife the hard way, and we don't want that.
 
NYOutdoors, your best bet, if you want to register your dissatisfaction, is to call or email Ka-Bar.
Ethan and Tooj do look in here sporadically, so your comments might be seen by BK&T or Ka-Bar. Bladite, Moose, and I simply help out here. We don't work for Ka-Bar.
As worldwood noted, past dissatisfactions with the sheaths are well documented here. You're late to the party in that regard.
I hope you find your knife, and if you want to complain more, by all means do so, but please do it to the right folks: http://www.kabar.com/
The members here are just trying to help you, not piss you off.
 
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